MRI results....Degenerative disc disease

[SamuelAdams]

Sounds worse than it is but still not good....anyone here have it?

I start rehab next week to build my core muscles...

I KNOW how I developed this and to those who do not have it please read.

It's been said numerous times on here and elsewhere that you must develop a strong back core when squatting and other excercises, etc. WELL DO IT and start NOW.

Ive been lifting since my early twenties, im 35 now and have a condition of a 60-70 yr. old. I KNEW that i should have been doing low back exercises but just didnt, EVER. If you think about it, all of it makes sense. Think of squatting (with no core muscle build). You are relying on the lower back (your discs) to handle all of that weight when in fact, the muscle around that disc is what needs to be holding the weight up. Those nice "cushions" (spinal dics) are not meant to hold extreme amounts of weight and over time, it will degenerate. Everyone's dics degenerate over time but mine is accelerated. This is my theory but it's more common sense...duh!

So now im on Celebrex and start rehab for 4 weeks , next week. I CAN workout but DOC says not to use the lower back without some support, i.e. incline bench, etc...no shoulder presses or anything that would irritate the lower back.

Im up for any advice on a routine, FULL BODY. Someone who has this or may not that is a vet in the gym, as I already have a plan and would love to compare notes.

[kendog2006]

i have same thing. hurts like hell every time you lift heavy. mornings suck from stiffness. been out of gym 6 months so far. herniated disc and ddd.

[T-Bone]

Same deal here. I had a CT scan a couple of weeks ago. Got a great chiro looking after it and doing a lot more stability work.

Yes, the morning cramps suck. I try to stretch every day to keep that at bay.

Hope your feeling better soon mate.

[Al1]

This is why you should front squat instead of back squat. It has already been proven that heavy squatting affects your L4L5 discs. Get the book "Ultimate Back Fitness" by Stuart McGill you will learn so much.

[deliverme]

hey sam.............. keep us posted .......... u will be ok ............ ya foooker

[Martin Blank]

A study called the Glucosamine/Chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT), had 1583 participants to either use Glucosamine 500mg and Chondoritin 400mg both three times per day or Pfizer's Celebrex 200 mg daily or a placebo daily for 24 wks to treat osteoarthritis pain. The GC combination performed as well, if not better than, the Celebrex in patients with moderate to severe pain. It was noted that the Celebrex relief was faster, but the GC showed continuous effects after treatment stopped.(The Tan Sheet, November 14, 2005). Good Luck.

[trapz]

join the club, except i was 27 and looking at a double spinal fusion... herniated l5-s1 to the right which can cause radiating pain down my leg, bu tthen they never believed my back pain and though ti was a drug seeker which yea i was cuz my back was in major pain alot til one did a discogram and found a ruptured l4-l5, those are the 2 they want to fuse.

anyway i have some stenosis and degeneration on the one or two above... but let me tell you it never started REALLY hurting until i was out o fthe gym and lost all my muscle to that staph infection that almost killed me.

docs told me i had to change my lifestyle get under 200lbs which even natty with low test would be hard etc... or get a double fusion and probably need another one up every 5-10 yrs.

anyways finally sawa pain mgmt. doc who knew i used to be a juicehead and bber to a small extent when i told him i didnt realy have any pain when i was 240-260 and muscular and never over 15 % bodyfat regardless of how heavy i trained... i had stopped bbell squatting and only doing light deads last in my back workout.

he told me if thats what worked give it a shot again before you get surgery, lol give it a shot, cuz i was about 2 weeks away from saying fuck it 2 summers ago and getting it done.

anyways, your already a head of the game cuz i did some research and the future of treatment is actually either localized IGF1 injections but the research said something about the half life ofthe drug being so short, or eventually gene therapy which they use a virus to insert it and alter your disc genes so they start producing more IGF one and regenerating themselves!!!

now you see why i said im never going off of hGH again ill go back to jail before i submit to the standard treatment all these docs were saying, some would say "oh its not so bad" hoping physical therapy would help and then others were saying "holy shit your way too you ng for this, even though your dad has it and its in you rgenetics every male on his side has it they started having problems in their 40's not their 20's"

i think one of the main cultrpits with me is also tight hams and posterior chain that has fucked up my form when i was squatting or deadlifting heavy when i was younger rolling my back without realizing.

i cut squats out years ago and i havent even done any sort of dead except light stiff legs with dbells as my last ham exercise or romanian or rack deads as my last back exercise on back day and even those rarely, im growing pretty well without them so i may just stick to hypers/good mornings etc.

i seriously havent squatted since i was like 22 or 23 at the oldest and that was once in a blue moon cuz every time i got up in weight id get hurt regardless of how light i went... def. that ruptured disc.

im basically doing my full routine i used to do but i would blowout my back and not be able to do anything but lay in bed for a week at time and it woudl take me a month to get back to my full routine... so im not sure where your at...

the physical therapy will probably feel too easy but they also wont be concentrating on most oof your other muscles just your core legs etc... like the first week they will have you jsut walking if they think its bad enough LOL.

i think you can still go into the gym and train reasonably hard, maybe try stuff that will require less weight like drop sets, pre exhaust, etc... and do everythign you can seated with back support til the PT is done with.

the biggest thing aside from working your core is flexibility i know i fucking hate stretching.

anyway hit me up let me know what they even have you doing for PT cuz half the shit didnt even help me, i usually just hit my low back on back day like i did before i lost all my mass with hypers and might add in some light higher rep rack deads or romanian deads, and i do abs 3x a week for 3 sets and just try and make sure to stretch.

dont forget that you dont need a TON of direct lower back work because it gets worked during heavy bent rows, tbar rows, cable rows, any row thats not chest supported and SLDL's and Romianian dead lifts or any type of dead.

im sure poppa cracker can chime in.

imagine what kinda shape your back would be in without the peptides!!!! i put 2 and 2 together after reading the facts that everyones hGH levels go in the bucket right around age 30 and EVERYONE ALSO develops some degree of deg. disc disease around 30 yrs old.

however just cuz you have it doesnt mean its the end of the world, their are people with serious fucked up MRI's that have no back pain, and then people like me who SOME docs said wasnt too bad, yea thats cuz the one disc in the middle wasnt herniated it was RUPTURED and when i would "blow out" my back that was the liquid inside geting into the epidural canal hitting my spinal nerve cuasing pain becasue that liquid is extremely irritating to the spinal nerves.

anyway, just listen to the docs, keep training hard on anything and everything that your low back isnt involved in and doesnt hurt, cuz ive found that the more muscle i have especially back muscle whther upper or lower back just all over the less pain i have.

its not a death sentence, just make sure to remove ANYTHING from your workouts that has ever aggravated it and left you laid up for an extended period time where it took a few weeks or a month or two to be back 100%.

i still do heavy delt presses, just on machiens or smith machine cuz i remember i would fuck up my low back trying to kick the 120's and up and catch them while seated to do delt presses when i was younger, one of the things that blew it out.

i still do heavy yates rows and cable rows they dont seem to aggravate it and the erectors are working really hard as a stabilizing muscle in those exercises.... while there is some shearing force there is no crushing force which always seeemed to be the exercises that caused me the most pain.

and for me i just do all sorts of crazy shit for legs, ill do hack since they dont hurt but lighter for higher reps, or sissy squats first then hacks or that and drop sets, and ill do them after doing leg presses first and even leg extensions sometimes.... just make sure to never let your lower back curl up on the bottom of the press.

also for the part of your legs that stiff legs and romanians hit you can put your feet really wide and toes pointing out and it hits that inner long head of the hams as well as the teardrop of your quads in the upper part of the press.

and anyway fuck legs, we aint training to step on stage having ridiculously huge legs just makes it harder to find clothes lol... when u say that u know your getting old or have some bad back or knee injuries!

[SamuelAdams]

Originally Posted by deliverme

hey sam.............. keep us posted .......... u will be ok ............ ya foooker

Thanks DM....BEOTCH!

[SamuelAdams]

im actually fine...thanks guys but I dont hurt. I havent and dont. I dont hurt when I walk, sit or anything. When i workout hard after about a week or two is when i "feel it" the first time i felt it was 2 month ago....it got so bad that when I went into the grocery store(back not hurting at all) i would leave 20 minutes later limping and hurting. SInce then, I stopped and only worked out like 2 or three times....I could workout just fine, but certain days I did feel it again coming so i stopped. I got health insurance (which i plan to keep thank God) and went to see thr Doc, got the MRI (which is 3k btw and they wouldnt do it until you pay your deductable), So i paid my 1G and things are fine. Anything medically I do from now until the end of the year is covered 100%..no 80/20 b.s....sucks it the end of the year though....anyways, im fine the DOC said that hes glad to see that I came in when i did. MOst just let it go and get so bad that an artificial or fusion (i was confused there) might have to be an option. Why would someone get a fusion if an artificial disc is avail.?? HE also said surgery is not even an option. Not even close, so dont worry about it. Its more of a "comfort" problem, to relieve the pain by strengthening the muscles ( hes a sports M.D. very well respected went to him in place of my Dad--who btw passed 2 weeks ago, but today was my Dad's appt., so I took his place instead (appt.)to meet the DOC and intro myself).

Trapz, i thought a ruptured disc is a slipped disc just terms interchangably used to mean the same. Also, was under the impression that slipped/ruptured discs DO heal on there own, no big deal, am i wrong?


I feel bad for you other guys, didnt realize how lucky i was until now.

[2legit2quit]

Sorry to hear that Sam but I'm sure you'll do fine in your rehab and what you will take away from it. Best of luck!

[SamuelAdams]

Originally Posted by 2legit2quit

Sorry to hear that Sam but I'm sure you'll do fine in your rehab and what you will take away from it. Best of luck!

thanks legit this minor set back will not bring me down, i can assure you

[ironkiwi ozdc trainee]

All the best for your rehab mate, and any younger members take note!

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by Al1

This is why you should front squat instead of back squat. It has already been proven that heavy squatting affects your L4L5 discs. Get the book "Ultimate Back Fitness" by Stuart McGill you will learn so much.

Does this book have a lot of info on how to fix an already existing problem?

[vabeckele]

I was on temsigic, diapalm,triptyl, immovane,tenox,panadol,burana, frequent opiate injections, ,tramadol, and a couple more I cant remember of.
I had to do all my toilet stuff lying on the floor and had a piss bottle. It took 2 years for me to recover, Ive never been in so much pain. I took 5 sleeping tablets and still didnt sleep for three days. This shouldnt of happened as the hospital should of operated immediately but didnt,still waiting on the courts for a verdict on that one.
Well I though my days as a working man were over but I continued to rehab and 2 years later Im about 10-15kgs overweight but Im deadlifting and squatting better than before. My form has to be perfect otherwise I drop the weight immediately.
In the beginning I couldnt do sit ups ( that whole area just went to sleep) or any kind of movements that involved any pressure on my lower back but I pushed on through and its paid off. I still have stiffness and still some wieght to lose but its manageable.
It feels great to be able to jog again, still got a long way to go as I can only jog for 30mins, as before I could go an hour and feel great but that too is comming back. Its just a wieght problem.
You can do it man, Ive seen guys with electrical appliances inserted into the back so they can stand ,work out and lead great normal lives, he limps alot though lol.

[deliverme]

Originally Posted by SamuelAdams

Thanks DM....BEOTCH!

No your my Beotch now get to the kitchen and know your place

[Grunt76]

I rehab screwed up backs all the time.

The right exercise and hormones, you will do great.

[Al1]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Does this book have a lot of info on how to fix an already existing problem?

Minor problems yes.

[Martin Blank]

Hey Sam, a lot of people use terms they think are interchangeable. A disc bulge is diffuse degeneration of the disc usually resulting from past trauma. A herniation can be a protrusion which is contained (the nucleus has not leaked). You can also have an extrusion which is not contained (Prolapse) or a sequestered herniation which is where the gelatinous disc material has leaked out and broken loose. The term "slipped disc" really doesn't mean anything. Most people use it to refer to any disc problems. Some disc bulges or contained herniations are self limiting and can eventually heal with time and conservative treatment. Try finding someone in your area who uses decompression therapy for your back pain. If you really don't have any pain then modifying your lifestyle is your best answer. Good luck.

[Grunt76]

Decompression can be achieved in any gym setting.