Which supplements make DNP more effective?

[Sadie]

Originally Posted by Conciliator

There's no way to say. It varies a lot from one person to another. I personally gain little to no water on DNP, maybe a pound or two max. Others gain upwards of 6-8 lbs with a dramatic drop in weight when they go off DNP. You'll just have to see for yourself.
Hope that helps,
Conciliator

this would be me. im only down 4 scale lbs but i can feel the water.. last time i ran it the scale didnt move til 3 days after my last dose.. i ended up 12 lbs lighter lol damn water lol im guessing i have 6-10 right now on top of the 4 i have already lost.. HH swears i dont look like im holding but i feel it all over its just not in my face thank god lol

[LostPowerLifter]

Con, next time your on can you post the best ways to run dnp. I'm interested in seeing what you recommend. thanks

[KillswitchXL]

Originally Posted by LostPowerLifter

Con, next time your on can you post the best ways to run dnp. I'm interested in seeing what you recommend. thanks

Very interested in this also.

[LostPowerLifter]

Originally Posted by KillswitchXL

Very interested in this also.

I'm pretty sure he is more active on other boards but hopefully he rolls through and reads this post.
BUMP!

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by LostPowerLifter

Con, next time your on can you post the best ways to run dnp. I'm interested in seeing what you recommend. thanks

The way I run DNP is this: I start low, I slowly increase the dose, and then I stay at a low dose that has minimal side effects. For me, that's 200-300mg/day with an accurately dosed product. I run much lower doeses, that are much more comfortable, than the high doses that bodybuilders usually use. I see no reason to suffer on DNP when I don't need to. A low dose of 300 mg/day increases metabolic rate an average of about 45% with minimal side effects. That's the way I think DNP should be used, not with stupid, high-dose inferno cycles that put your life at risk and that make you feel like walking death. With lower doses, you can run the DNP for as long as you need to reach your goals. That might be 2 weeks, 4 weeks, or 4 months. If tolerance develops (indicated by the disapparance of side effects), increase the dose by a small amount. Make sure the side effects continue to be mild, otherwise lower the dose. Cut calories at least 500 per day. Keep protein intake high. Add EC and/or clen for fat mobilization, appetite supression, and increased energy. Lift heavy for a couple of good compound sets, hitting each body part 2-3x a week. Add cardio if you're so inclined.

Also, here's a post I made that sums up my advice on some of the DNP basics:

The first time you take DNP, you want to run it for a few days at a low dosage to make sure you're not allergic to it. I'd run the lowest dose you have, be it 100 or 200mg, for 4 - 5 days. If there's no itching or rash, then you're probably good to up the DNP dose to 200mg/day for the next 4-5 days. You probably won't notice much, if anything, from 200mg/day. However some people find this to be the optimal dose. You'll be able to tell based on the side effects and your temperature. You want a dose where you notice the side effects, but they're not excessive. If they're not, then bump it up to 300mg/day for the next 4-5 days.

Note that even when you're taking the same dosage, it's slowly accumulating due to a long half life. 300mg/day is the sweet spot for most people. They notice the sides (heat, a little sweating, a little tired, a little thirsty, a little out of breath), but the sides are not bad. Fat loss is good. It's a good trade off and a safe place to stop (for most people). Some people who are particularly tolerant to DNP will feel little to nothing at 300mg/day and will want to go higher. Also, many DNP products are underdosed and will require higher doses. Just follow the same protocol, at least 4-5 days at each dosage before increasing it. Pay attention to the sides. Reduce your dose if it's too much.

Now as you do this, you should be taking your temperature a few times per day. Get a digital thermometer at Walmart if you don't have one. They're cheap. This is the #1 thing you can do to prevent (and stay far away from) overdosing on DNP. Death from overdosing is actually very rare, but it happens, so it's smart to take precautions. If at any time your temperature is over 99.1 (above normal), you need to lower your dosage of DNP. A high temperature is the number 1 sign of impending toxicity. Watch your temperature and use it as a guide to let you know if it's time to back off on your DNP dosage. And of course, even if your temperature is normal, back off on your dosage if you're not feeling well or if the sides seem excessive to you. No reason to suffer for nothing.

If you follow these precautions, slowly increase your dosage, and reducing your dosage if the sides (or your temperature) ever become excessive, you should have an effective, yet comfortable experience.

Finally, watch your diet. Don't blow the magic of the drugs with a crappy willpower and a crappy diet. Keep your protein intake high (at least 1g per pound of bodyweight per day) and keep your caloric intake down. You do that, and you should make some kick-ass progress. Then, when you end the cycle, follow it up with a good diet and consistent training so you don’t undo everything.

Hope that helps,
Conc

[alteredbeast]

I can vouch for Conciliator, I've read his posts for years on this board and on others, and the man has always provided great info on DNP.

Con can you touch on the cataract issue? Is this myth... is there some basis for this?

[KillswitchXL]

Con does DNP increase cortisol levels?

I have high cortisol levels due to a HPAA problem so that's why id like to know. If it does to any high degree id rather not use it.

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by alteredbeast

I can vouch for Conciliator, I've read his posts for years on this board and on others, and the man has always provided great info on DNP.

Con can you touch on the cataract issue? Is this myth... is there some basis for this?

Despite what some DNP guides claim, cataracts are a potential side effect. Even though they're very uncommon, cataracts are one of the major risks that any DNP user should be aware of. In the 1930's, it was estimated that cataracts occur in 1 in 1000 DNP users. All in all, there were 160 some odd case reports of cataracts, with 3 case reports in men. For a thorough review on cataracts and DNP, see this article: A Study of Dinitrophenol and Its Relation to Cataract Formation. It's one of the few original papers on DNP that are available online.

Now your next question is probably whether there's anything you can do to prevent getting cataracts from DNP. There's evidence supporting the idea that antioxidants might work. Early research in the 1930's and 40's made a bunch of different hypotheses about how DNP might cause cataracts. Some thought the cataracts were caused by oxygen deficiency and lactic acid buildup in anaerobic metabolism (which is predominant in the lens). Others thought it was because of interference with glycolysis. Some thought it was secondary to liver damage (which is not the case).

The best research came in the 1950's by Ogino and Yasukura. They found that guinea pigs fed a vitamin C deficient diet while on DNP developed cataracts, while those that supplemented with vitamin C did not. As they explained, "In these experiments, it is clear that there is a close relationship between the production of cataract and vitamin-C deficiency." They then went on, though a series of fascinating steps, to isolate the cataractogenic metabolite of DNP (the chemical derived from DNP that can cause cataracts). They identified it as 2-amino-p-quinonimine. They found that the hydroxyl- and nitro-radicals of DNP in the p-position of the benzene ring are essential to the production of dinitrophenol cataract. There are various other cataractogenic agents that are similar quinoid substances.

Ogino and Yasukura said "This suggests that a genetic predisposition plays an important role in susceptibility to this cataract. This notion is strengthened by the fact that, in spite of extensive experiments of long duration by many authors, it has been found impossible to produce dinitrophenol cataract experimentally in various other species, namely, in rats, rabbits, guinea pigs, and dogs, although Bettman observed dinitrophenol cataract in a special strain of mice." If there's a genetic predisposition, then some people might be much more likely to develop cataracts than others. It's also possible that while a few people are susceptible, others are essentially immune.

Another researcher, Rigdon, did research in 1959 on DNP induced cataracts in chickens and turkeys. He said "of course, necrosis in any tissue may occur by different mechanisms. However, the similarity of the effect of DNP and deficiency of vitamin E on the lens may be significant."

Personally, I think those who developed cataracts either 1) had a genetic predisposition as Ogino and Yasukura hypothesized, 2) were vitamin C/E deficient, or 3) both. Vitamin C supplementation didn't make it big until Linus Pauling in the 70's. I think it's very possible that these people in the 1930's were eating unbalanced diets and had antioxidant deficiencies. IMO, vitamin C, vitamin E, and other antioxidants would be expected to reduce the incidence rate or even prevent cataracts altogether. The incidence is already low enough to begin with that I don't think any supplements are "mandatory" while taking DNP, but for those who are susceptible, for whatever reason, a normal dose of vitamin C and E might offer some insurance.

Hope that helps,
Conciliator

[LostPowerLifter]

Thanks Con, I've been looking more and more into different studies some lasting an entire year and wondered what you think would be best.

I'll pass this on to a few friends and keep if for my research.

thanks again.

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by KillswitchXL

Con does DNP increase cortisol levels?

Not sure how/if DNP affects cortisol levels. As far as I know, this hasn't been looked at before.

-Conc

[alteredbeast]

Originally Posted by Conciliator

Despite what some DNP guides claim, cataracts are a potential side effect. Even though they're very uncommon, cataracts are one of the major risks that any DNP user should be aware of. In the 1930's, it was estimated that cataracts occur in 1 in 1000 DNP users. All in all, there were 160 some odd case reports of cataracts, with 3 case reports in men. For a thorough review on cataracts and DNP, see this article: A Study of Dinitrophenol and Its Relation to Cataract Formation. It's one of the few original papers on DNP that are available online.

Now your next question is probably whether there's anything you can do to prevent getting cataracts from DNP. There's evidence supporting the idea that antioxidants might work. Early research in the 1930's and 40's made a bunch of different hypotheses about how DNP might cause cataracts. Some thought the cataracts were caused by oxygen deficiency and lactic acid buildup in anaerobic metabolism (which is predominant in the lens). Others thought it was because of interference with glycolysis. Some thought it was secondary to liver damage (which is not the case).

The best research came in the 1950's by Ogino and Yasukura. They found that guinea pigs fed a vitamin C deficient diet while on DNP developed cataracts, while those that supplemented with vitamin C did not. As they explained, "In these experiments, it is clear that there is a close relationship between the production of cataract and vitamin-C deficiency." They then went on, though a series of fascinating steps, to isolate the cataractogenic metabolite of DNP (the chemical derived from DNP that can cause cataracts). They identified it as 2-amino-p-quinonimine. They found that the hydroxyl- and nitro-radicals of DNP in the p-position of the benzene ring are essential to the production of dinitrophenol cataract. There are various other cataractogenic agents that are similar quinoid substances.

Ogino and Yasukura said "This suggests that a genetic predisposition plays an important role in susceptibility to this cataract. This notion is strengthened by the fact that, in spite of extensive experiments of long duration by many authors, it has been found impossible to produce dinitrophenol cataract experimentally in various other species, namely, in rats, rabbits, guinea pigs, and dogs, although Bettman observed dinitrophenol cataract in a special strain of mice." If there's a genetic predisposition, then some people might be much more likely to develop cataracts than others. It's also possible that while a few people are susceptible, others are essentially immune.

Another researcher, Rigdon, did research in 1959 on DNP induced cataracts in chickens and turkeys. He said "of course, necrosis in any tissue may occur by different mechanisms. However, the similarity of the effect of DNP and deficiency of vitamin E on the lens may be significant."

Personally, I think those who developed cataracts either 1) had a genetic predisposition as Ogino and Yasukura hypothesized, 2) were vitamin C/E deficient, or 3) both. Vitamin C supplementation didn't make it big until Linus Pauling in the 70's. I think it's very possible that these people in the 1930's were eating unbalanced diets and had antioxidant deficiencies. IMO, vitamin C, vitamin E, and other antioxidants would be expected to reduce the incidence rate or even prevent cataracts altogether. The incidence is already low enough to begin with that I don't think any supplements are "mandatory" while taking DNP, but for those who are susceptible, for whatever reason, a normal dose of vitamin C and E might offer some insurance.

Hope that helps,
Conciliator

Excellent info as usual. I've always supplemented with a multivitamin and pyruvate during DNP, I'll make sure on the adequate vit C & E. Thanks again.

[the_anapolack]

concilator....what are your thoughts on animal's protocol?.......long term low dosage

[jarhead.]

Concillator, will taking something like Dynacleine (injectable ATP) help with the training aspect while on DNP? I have found it helps dramatically when on a low carbohydrate diet, and was wondering if it will be of a benefit in this instance.

Cheers.

[speedbacker]

Jarhead- How did you feel that dynacleine helped you dramatically while on a low carb diet? What benefits did you see?

[the_anapolack]

animal from chemanarchy suggests sod,pyruvate and glycerol and maybe a few other goodies.........but if i understand right those are the big 3

[jarhead.]

Originally Posted by speedbacker

Jarhead- How did you feel that dynacleine helped you dramatically while on a low carb diet? What benefits did you see?

Replied to your pm bro.

[speedbacker]

Originally Posted by jarhead.

Replied to your pm bro.

Got it, thanks Jar.

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by the_anapolack

concilator....what are your thoughts on animal's protocol?.......long term low dosage

That's what I would recommend. Forget the high dose "inferno cycles" that have been popular for years. They're unecessarily risky and make for a hellish experience.

Originally Posted by jarhead.

Concillator, will taking something like Dynacleine (injectable ATP) help with the training aspect while on DNP? I have found it helps dramatically when on a low carbohydrate diet, and was wondering if it will be of a benefit in this instance.

I don't think it would do much, though I could be wrong. Even if it did improve training performance, I'm not so sure it would make any different in your results anyway.

Originally Posted by the_anapolack

animal from chemanarchy suggests sod,pyruvate and glycerol and maybe a few other goodies.........but if i understand right those are the big 3

You don't need any of those, especially if you're doing a low dose cycle like Animal recommends. When I run DNP, I don't use any of those and don't think you need any of those.