does aas use=trt at some point?

awal · 10-03-2008, 11:40 AM

have any of you got to a point were you dont recover well anymore?
or have you got to a point were you just dont recover fully? (libido).

what im trying to say is, is trt/hrt an unavoidable end to long term cycling?

im 24, ive been on about 7 cycles: 1) test/decca 8 wk 2)test/decca/drol 10wk 3) test/winstrol/decca 8-10wk 4)test/decca/dbol 5)tren/test/winstrol/adex and a few oral only cycles before i started jabbing.
i have used hcg/nolv/clomid in pct in all my cycles except for #1
up until inj cycle 4 i always recovered within 3 months.after inj cycle 4, it was 4 months before i started inj cycle 5 and i still didnt feel 100%
cycle 5 was almost 10-11 months ago now and its been a slow recovery! i thaught i was 100% again about 5 weeks ago as i was horny for about 2 weeks but then my libido/loads dropped again! i now feel exactly the same as i did 2-3 months ago! ive had 2 blood tests done, the first one, 6 months ago showed that i had very low test/lh/fsh levels and the second one came back "normal" about 2-3 months ago but i didnt feel nearly 100%. i just feel that ive recovered as much as im going to now.

will i never get my full libido back? is trt the next step for me? i hope not. im 24 with no kids and i just feel like im not ready for this yet.

before this happened to me i thaught that everyone always made full recoverys and that it was just a matter of time/good pct but now im having serious doubts.

have any of you guys got any experiances simular to my problem?

id really appreciate anyones honest, unbiast replies, thanks.

onyx.h · 10-03-2008, 12:03 PM

You have to remember what you are comparing. You may be recovered but not feel like you did when you were on so in your head you think you are not. I am guessing you started in your late teens or maybe 20 so you went from horny to hornier and now you just may be normal.

awal · 10-03-2008, 12:25 PM

you may be right onyx but there are some signs:

i dont often get morning wood.

i dont easilly get aroused anymore.

i dont cum much anymore.

if i was 30 i would feel normal but im only 24.

its just that in past cycles i have felt a full recovery and this time i havent.

Data · 10-03-2008, 03:28 PM

I think you recover better when your younger. But yeah I have noticed that many steroid users do have a lower testosterone level. However at the same time so do a lot of men.

shauny2times · 10-03-2008, 03:34 PM

u might not think so but your libido is controlled by your brain...so when u come off and it is really low you are troubled by it and now that ur back to normal its still in the back of your mind if u can perform as well or not.... after 1st cycle I didn't get hcg...well the first time I had a hard time getting it up it hella bothered me....even way later after I was fine and normal...id think about it when the time came to have sex...I got my test levels checked...all good doc said 80 % of any sexual problems lies within ur mind...just relax and enjoy the feelings... sooo the next time I just relaxed my mind and enjoyed the touching and tried to just tune in on how it felt to have her kiss my neck for ex and ever since I've been great...btw yeah no morniin wood during this down expereince but as soon as it was out of my head...all good... just my exp.
also try taking arginine in the morning and at night I heard it raised your igf levels...also gave me crazy vascularity and woodys.......I hope this helps I hated being there

Master Of Chokes · 10-03-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Data

I think you recover better when your younger. But yeah I have noticed that many steroid users do have a lower testosterone level. However at the same time so do a lot of men.

some studies that have been done recently show that men around our age have a huge decrease in testosterone compared to our fathers at our age... diet preservatives, pesticides......um....., lack of activity, global warming (lol).... lots of reasons im sure...

only way to find out is get the tests done and see whats going on... blood work can tell some things.....

other than that i think everyone is different and reacts/recovers differently even over time.... its all individual and also very different bc users use different compounds, sources, oral vs inj, # of cycles, total length on... so its not set in stone every gear user is going to have to be on hrt....

jacenty · 10-03-2008, 08:12 PM

The thing with your libido issues is 90% mental. I have just recently ended a 14 week cycle test/eq. My libido sucked long after the cycle was over I though I was still shut down. Had my blood levels checked, lh,fsh and test levels came out great. BUt I did feel like shit tho, and had no sex drive at all. But then I thiught to myself that if my levels are so good then what the fuck I am complaining about. And then I realised it was all in my head. I was telling myself that I am off juice and that it is normal that I feel like shit. But since than I feel a lot better, and have no probs gettin it up.

Im taking 3g of trib stacked with zinc and magnesium. Also use arginine. Those supplements will definately help with libido issues. It is proven.

mars1970 · 10-03-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awal

have any of you got to a point were you dont recover well anymore?
or have you got to a point were you just dont recover fully? (libido).

what im trying to say is, is trt/hrt an unavoidable end to long term cycling?

im 24, ive been on about 7 cycles: 1) test/decca 8 wk 2)test/decca/drol 10wk 3) test/winstrol/decca 8-10wk 4)test/decca/dbol 5)tren/test/winstrol/adex and a few oral only cycles before i started jabbing.
i have used hcg/nolv/clomid in pct in all my cycles except for #1
up until inj cycle 4 i always recovered within 3 months.after inj cycle 4, it was 4 months before i started inj cycle 5 and i still didnt feel 100%
cycle 5 was almost 10-11 months ago now and its been a slow recovery! i thaught i was 100% again about 5 weeks ago as i was horny for about 2 weeks but then my libido/loads dropped again! i now feel exactly the same as i did 2-3 months ago! ive had 2 blood tests done, the first one, 6 months ago showed that i had very low test/lh/fsh levels and the second one came back "normal" about 2-3 months ago but i didnt feel nearly 100%. i just feel that ive recovered as much as im going to now.

will i never get my full libido back? is trt the next step for me? i hope not. im 24 with no kids and i just feel like im not ready for this yet.

before this happened to me i thaught that everyone always made full recoverys and that it was just a matter of time/good pct but now im having serious doubts.

have any of you guys got any experiances simular to my problem?

id really appreciate anyones honest, unbiast replies, thanks.

The more cycles you do, the longer recovery can take, even with a good PCT.
Your only 24, you will recover fully, it's just taking a bit longer.
As for trt, if you carry on using steroids for another ten years say, you will probably need trt.

awal · 10-04-2008, 10:19 AM

maybe its mental, i will get another blood test done asap and see what my results are.

thanks guys.

balboa · 10-05-2008, 05:53 PM

Honestly I think inevitabley age=trt. All of our test levels are diminishing, cycling or not as we get older. Cycling hastens the process for most but either way your test levels will shrink to the point that you will want to exogenously administer test eventually.

glock32 · 10-05-2008, 09:01 PM

I don't know I'm 40 and it hasn't affected me yet sexually. But I make sure I come off for as long as I was on for. I've been using since I was 20 and I still get horny when off, morning wood when off and I seem to cum more when off than when on. About the only difference is when I'm off I feel old and then I remember, I am. I get way more aches and pains, need more sleep and really don't recover training wise like I used to. I always get sore when I'm off now and never feel as tight as I used to. But I think its because I am old and I continue to train like when I was 20.

hulk6767 · 10-05-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mars1970

The more cycles you do, the longer recovery can take, even with a good PCT.
Your only 24, you will recover fully, it's just taking a bit longer.
As for trt, if you carry on using steroids for another ten years say, you will probably need trt.

I wish I was 24 again!

awal · 10-06-2008, 07:38 AM

i dont know if i will recover fully, in the 10-11 months ive been off it hasnt been a steady slow recovery. from the 5th month ive tried clomid re-pct, nolva & clomid, hcg nolva & clomid twice and i thaught i was getting somewere, i saw a slight improvement.
but now 10-11 months later i feel like its all going backwards. up untill recently i felt like i was almost 100% again and then my sex drive and load size/quality has again begun to decline.

strength · 10-06-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awal

have any of you got to a point were you dont recover well anymore?
or have you got to a point were you just dont recover fully? (libido).

what im trying to say is, is trt/hrt an unavoidable end to long term cycling?

im 24, ive been on about 7 cycles: 1) test/decca 8 wk 2)test/decca/drol 10wk 3) test/winstrol/decca 8-10wk 4)test/decca/dbol 5)tren/test/winstrol/adex and a few oral only cycles before i started jabbing.
i have used hcg/nolv/clomid in pct in all my cycles except for #1
up until inj cycle 4 i always recovered within 3 months.after inj cycle 4, it was 4 months before i started inj cycle 5 and i still didnt feel 100%
cycle 5 was almost 10-11 months ago now and its been a slow recovery! i thaught i was 100% again about 5 weeks ago as i was horny for about 2 weeks but then my libido/loads dropped again! i now feel exactly the same as i did 2-3 months ago! ive had 2 blood tests done, the first one, 6 months ago showed that i had very low test/lh/fsh levels and the second one came back "normal" about 2-3 months ago but i didnt feel nearly 100%. i just feel that ive recovered as much as im going to now.

will i never get my full libido back? is trt the next step for me? i hope not. im 24 with no kids and i just feel like im not ready for this yet.

before this happened to me i thaught that everyone always made full recoverys and that it was just a matter of time/good pct but now im having serious doubts.

have any of you guys got any experiances simular to my problem?

id really appreciate anyones honest, unbiast replies, thanks.

I am not trying to scare you but I am 27, stopped using AAS at 23-24. I started AAS at 19-20. Stayed on pretty much consistently, Used lots and lots of tren. Lots of IP orals back in the day. Used to eat his oral masteron tabs like they were candy, and his dbol.. To make a long story short. Went to the doc about a couple months ago because of all the classic signs of low T. Keep in mind i hadn't touched a steroid or hormone altering drug in YEARS. my levels were in the toilet. My HPTA never fully recovered. I've been on trt for about 4 weeks. In those 3-4 years where i was clean, i had 2 perfectly healthy boys. So, yes it can happen to you. I always used to think that it would never happen to me, but it did, and i am very blessed i already have children so fertility is of no concern to me anymore since i am only 27. I'd like to tell you hey, your young, you should recover just fine, but like me, that also may not be the case. My total test was 119 (range was 240-950) and free T was .77 (.95-4.5). Everything else was fine except my estrogen was high. Really weird, low T with high Estrogen. So shit happens. After a year or so i may try a rigorous re-start with HCG clomid/nolva the whole 9 yards, but as of now i feel like im "on" again with only 200mgs cyp/week. I feel great, have already lost bf% and in 4 weeks of trt have set personal records in the gym, even when i was using AAS in "non-therapetic" doses.

I have a great doc, he knows my history and we went right to the shots and didnt mess the creams or gels.

strength · 10-06-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awal

i dont know if i will recover fully, in the 10-11 months ive been off it hasnt been a steady slow recovery. from the 5th month ive tried clomid re-pct, nolva & clomid, hcg nolva & clomid twice and i thaught i was getting somewere, i saw a slight improvement.
but now 10-11 months later i feel like its all going backwards. up untill recently i felt like i was almost 100% again and then my sex drive and load size/quality has again begun to decline.

you need to get your levels checked. At this point i dont even want to think about it cause i am kinda pissed but i think once you try AAS, there really isnt any going back. I mean who really just does one or two cycles? It's not like that.

strength · 10-06-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awal

the first one, 6 months ago showed that i had very low test/lh/fsh levels and the second one came back "normal" about 2-3 months ago but i didnt feel nearly 100%.

what exactly were your T levels?

awal · 10-09-2008, 01:44 PM

i think they were 6nmol/l im not sure how to translate that but i think the minimum normal level was 8nmol/l.

the second test, they still havent gave me the results. i have an appointment in a few weeks which will also give my sperm count. they only said that it was normal.

i feel normal physically & mentally energy/mood wise but my libido is still low.

i have a feeling i have low fertility.

your story does not surprize me, i know that my body is not as it should be. but im glad to hear that you had kids as that is my main concern.

im starting to feel like i havent got the luxury of waiting anymore and that i need to hurry up and have kids!

10-03-2008, 03:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Data Senior Member Data's Stats Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,635 Status: Offline Data's Info Location: Canada Country:	I think you recover better when your younger. But yeah I have noticed that many steroid users do have a lower testosterone level. However at the same time so do a lot of men.
	__________________ A man oriented to duty recognizes that nothing of consequence gets done unless someone puts himself on the line. I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Jefferson.

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10-03-2008, 12:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
onyx.h Senior Member onyx.h's Stats Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 868 Status: Offline onyx.h's Info Location: jackson Country:	You have to remember what you are comparing. You may be recovered but not feel like you did when you were on so in your head you think you are not. I am guessing you started in your late teens or maybe 20 so you went from horny to hornier and now you just may be normal.

10-03-2008, 12:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
awal Senior Member awal's Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 654 Status: Offline awal's Info Location: Country:	you may be right onyx but there are some signs: i dont often get morning wood. i dont easilly get aroused anymore. i dont cum much anymore. if i was 30 i would feel normal but im only 24. its just that in past cycles i have felt a full recovery and this time i havent.

10-04-2008, 10:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
awal Senior Member awal's Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 654 Status: Offline awal's Info Location: Country:	maybe its mental, i will get another blood test done asap and see what my results are. thanks guys.

10-05-2008, 05:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
balboa Member balboa's Stats Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 70 Status: Offline balboa's Info Location: Country:	Honestly I think inevitabley age=trt. All of our test levels are diminishing, cycling or not as we get older. Cycling hastens the process for most but either way your test levels will shrink to the point that you will want to exogenously administer test eventually.

10-05-2008, 09:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
glock32 Senior Member glock32's Stats Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 523 Status: Offline glock32's Info Location: Dark side of the moon Country:	I don't know I'm 40 and it hasn't affected me yet sexually. But I make sure I come off for as long as I was on for. I've been using since I was 20 and I still get horny when off, morning wood when off and I seem to cum more when off than when on. About the only difference is when I'm off I feel old and then I remember, I am. I get way more aches and pains, need more sleep and really don't recover training wise like I used to. I always get sore when I'm off now and never feel as tight as I used to. But I think its because I am old and I continue to train like when I was 20.

10-09-2008, 01:44 PM	#17 (permalink)
awal Senior Member awal's Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 654 Status: Offline awal's Info Location: Country:	i think they were 6nmol/l im not sure how to translate that but i think the minimum normal level was 8nmol/l. the second test, they still havent gave me the results. i have an appointment in a few weeks which will also give my sperm count. they only said that it was normal. i feel normal physically & mentally energy/mood wise but my libido is still low. i have a feeling i have low fertility. your story does not surprize me, i know that my body is not as it should be. but im glad to hear that you had kids as that is my main concern. im starting to feel like i havent got the luxury of waiting anymore and that i need to hurry up and have kids!