What would you recomend?

[Testaroon]

Maybe this will help with the logic for you!
Nandrolone Side Effects: Although many nandrolone lovers claim that it is one of the safest anabolic steroids, if not the safest. It does have side effects that can be bothersome in hypersensitive individuals, such as acne, excitation, insomnia, nausea, diarrhea and bladder irritability(1). More serious (and common) side effects include testicular atrophy (shrunken balls), impotence (deca dick) and gynecomastia (bitch tits) (1). Nandrolone use has been shown to be safe and easy on the lipid profile, often improving HDL Cholesterol (16) Impotence can be offset by stacking the nandrolone with a higher testosterone. Nandrolone also causes the "shut down" (total stoppage) of endogenous (natural) testosterone production. Thus an exogenous (outside) source must be provided, the increased prolactin levels from the use of a progestinic steroid contribute to HPTA shut down and testicular atrophy which can be treated with a combination HCG (a female hormone that acts like LH when introduced into the male body) and bromocriptine (a dopamine receptor agonist that, among other things, can lower prolactin levels.) (1)(11) Besides using bromcriptine to lower prolactin levels, the anti-estrogens fulvestrant or letrozole on be taken to down regulate the progesterone and estrogen receptor.(12)( 13 )

[onyx.h]

Originally Posted by Testaroon

Maybe this will help with the logic for you!
Nandrolone Side Effects: Although many nandrolone lovers claim that it is one of the safest anabolic steroids, if not the safest. It does have side effects that can be bothersome in hypersensitive individuals, such as acne, excitation, insomnia, nausea, diarrhea and bladder irritability(1). More serious (and common) side effects include testicular atrophy (shrunken balls), impotence (deca dick) and gynecomastia (bitch tits) (1). Nandrolone use has been shown to be safe and easy on the lipid profile, often improving HDL Cholesterol (16) Impotence can be offset by stacking the nandrolone with a higher testosterone. Nandrolone also causes the "shut down" (total stoppage) of endogenous (natural) testosterone production. Thus an exogenous (outside) source must be provided, the increased prolactin levels from the use of a progestinic steroid contribute to HPTA shut down and testicular atrophy which can be treated with a combination HCG (a female hormone that acts like LH when introduced into the male body) and bromocriptine (a dopamine receptor agonist that, among other things, can lower prolactin levels.) (1)(11) Besides using bromcriptine to lower prolactin levels, the anti-estrogens fulvestrant or letrozole on be taken to down regulate the progesterone and estrogen receptor.(12)( 13 )

WTF IS YOUR POINT??? dude just STOP and THINK for a second PLEASE. As long as you are getting test (YES, even if the test is lower then the deca) you will not have deca dick! I dont understand what is so hard for YOU to understand. I take back my "sorry" from earlier! You are just THICK. AT 50 mgs of test a week NO ONE WILL HAVE A PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!! AGAIN take 10 grams of deca a week and 100 mgs of test a week and YOU WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!! WONT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE CLUELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LIKE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM DONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Testaroon]

Well i have had the problem at400mgteste and 400mg deca and if you use the search button you will find many others who have had the same!!@!

[onyx.h]

Originally Posted by Testaroon

Well i have had the problem at400mgteste and 400mg deca and if you use the search button you will find many others who have had the same!!@!

No you have not and others have not. You make up your history based on what you have read (and misinterpreted). The experience you claim is not yours. Please stop claiming to have experience that you do not. Your logic was faulty from the start and your made up experience just makes it worse. Deca dick is real and does happen BUT only when your test is shut down and you have none coming in. The science is simple. Please give no further advice to others. Thank you.

[Testaroon]

you are so full of shit you have no idea. I am simply giving my opinion from my experineces who the fuck are you to say my own experinces are wrong. I am opffering my opinion you and anyone else can take it or leave it.

[onyx.h]

Originally Posted by Testaroon

you are so full of shit you have no idea. I am simply giving my opinion from my experineces who the fuck are you to say my own experinces are wrong. I am opffering my opinion you and anyone else can take it or leave it. And you can go FUCK YOURSELF you pig headed bitch!!!

Facts are not matters of OPINION. You are making stuff up. I am explaining how you are wrong. What I stated in regards to deca dick and deca not needing to be higher then test and how you will not get deca dick as long as you have trt/hrt levels of test coming in, etc... those are FACTS. Your "experineces" are not even your experiences. Again I would like to kindly ask you to stop giving advice to others in matters that you have no understanding of or experience with. Thank you.

[rgrmedic]

As I stated before I've done deca only and had no deca dick...thats me though

[falkirk107]

Originally Posted by drob29

Your foolish, and this is POOR advice.

The 1/2 life of deca ia about twice that of test c/e. If you drop both at the same time and begin PCT two weeks after the last shot, then your deca level has not bottomed out, and your trying to convince your balls to produce test again, when the deca is still active. THAT WONT WORK and natural test level recovery will be delayed, or worse.

Mabey that works for you (not sure why your deca and test 1/2 life would be any different than mine...but lets assume your special like that) but that advice is poor.

The fact you have 13 years of experience means nothing here, and the fact you have a zillion posts is worthless as well.

The fact you tell a newbie its ok to end a deca test cycle at the same time, and begin PCT 2 weeks after, says to me your the one who needs to read up and learn more before you dish out more lousy cycle advice.

smarten up

Hey newbie..chill man. Watch what you say on here. There are people on here that has lots of experience with these drugs, like Data. peace.

[Data]

Originally Posted by Starks

When you start using your clomid all depends on what steroids you were using during your cycle. Different steroids have different half lifes and you should adjust your clomid intake accordingly. Like drob29 and I have said above, if you take clomid when the androgen levels in your body are still high it will be a waste. It wont work. You have to wait for androgen levels to fall before starting your clomid therapy.

So basically your post was a long winded way of saying that I'm starting my PCT too early. Agreed?

Starting PCT too early is foolish, poor advice, and I should smarten up. I know you didn't say that but thats the reason I'm in this thread so much. Its the internet egos on this board that drive me nuts. I see this place as a community of juicers who share and relate experiences. And another thing, since I'm on a rant about bolex here ... when the relationship forum gets more attention than a Mr. Olympia thread ... somethings gotta change. I love this place but its not like it use to be around here.

Anyways, I don't see anyone waiting 4-6 weeks for some of the heavier esters of sustanon to clear before starting PCT.

As a matter of fact I've done PCT (HCG/Arimidex/Clomid) during a cycle and managed to get my nuts back in working order.

So no I don't think you need to wait for a drug to clear your system. Like Dorian Yates always said ... some things work out in theory but don't pan out in the real world.

Now I'm not arguing with your REASONS. I think they are valid. I think they make sense. I just think, in the real world (arm chair thinkers step aside) ... it doesn't matter. It worked for the vet that taught me when I was a kid, and its still working for me a decade later.

I think deca is a great drug thats been given a bad wrap by arm chair thinkers who probably haven't even done more than a cycle or two with it.

[Starks]

Originally Posted by Data

So basically your post was a long winded way of saying that I'm starting my PCT too early. Agreed?

Starting PCT too early is foolish, poor advice, and I should smarten up. I know you didn't say that but thats the reason I'm in this thread so much. Its the internet egos on this board that drive me nuts. I see this place as a community of juicers who share and relate experiences. And another thing, since I'm on a rant about bolex here ... when the relationship forum gets more attention than a Mr. Olympia thread ... somethings gotta change. I love this place but its not like it use to be around here.

Anyways, I don't see anyone waiting 4-6 weeks for some of the heavier esters of sustanon to clear before starting PCT.

As a matter of fact I've done PCT (HCG/Arimidex/Clomid) during a cycle and managed to get my nuts back in working order.

So no I don't think you need to wait for a drug to clear your system. Like Dorian Yates always said ... some things work out in theory but don't pan out in the real world.

Now I'm not arguing with your REASONS. I think they are valid. I think they make sense. I just think, in the real world (arm chair thinkers step aside) ... it doesn't matter. It worked for the vet that taught me when I was a kid, and its still working for me a decade later.

I think deca is a great drug thats been given a bad wrap by arm chair thinkers who probably haven't even done more than a cycle or two with it.

I guess you missed the point of my post. No matter. gearfin has seen the two sides of this coin. It's up to him what he decides to do.

gearfin if you would like some more info on how to do PCT the proper way feel free to PM me.


Out.

[drob29]

Originally Posted by Data

..... Its the internet egos on this board that drive me nuts......

really.....

[helltownhero]

Originally Posted by gaerfin

This is only my second cycle, and on my first I did no PCT, but this time I will.
I am only running Omn. 250/week and Deca 300/week for 12 weeks. What should I use for PCT? This is new to me your advice is appreciated.

if i was you id run omna @ 500\week and keep the deca at 300\week i just got off the same cycle great results!!! i think a simple nolva/clomid would be a proper pct

[propionator]

Originally Posted by onyx.h

ah funny. deca ALONE is different then deca higher then test. NO ONE will have a problem with "deca dick" is test is even at hrt doses. NO ONE!!! not everyone is different, not I am special, none of that! NO ONE will have the PHYSICAL problem of "deca dick" if they are on say 100 mgs of cyp a week or 50 mgs of test a week or 10 mgs of dbol a day or 250 mgs of sust every 2 weeks or...etc... I am sorry man but you either made up your "experience" OR you BELIEVED YOU WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM AND DID. Dont know which but I lean towards you having made up your experience. deca dick does not happen because deca doesn't let your dick work, it happens because you shut down all test production SOOOOOOOOO even if you are on 5grams a week of deca with 100mgs a week of cyp YOU WILL NOT HAVE A PROBLEM!!!! PLEASE dont make stuff up and try and understand what the drugs you claim to take actually DO and HOW they work!

And youve done a clincal trail of males using physiologic doses of testosterone and supraphysiologic doses of nandrolone? And those results show that 100% of your sample size(more than 1 person) had no issues with ED/libido? Even with extremely high prolactin levels? Even though about every endocrin journal has found a link between prolactin and libido/ED?

If what you are saying is true, than that means everyone is the same. So all of us should be bigger than ronnie coleman and we all should have our pro-cards. (because we are all the exact same right?)

[Jarbeebus]

Sorry, but I have been away for a while and arguing about a 300 mg/test cycle seems like a waste of everyone's time. If you are on less than 500/week then just do your PCT, then reconsider your usage of AAS. Really.

[onyx.h]

Originally Posted by propionator

And youve done a clincal trail of males using physiologic doses of testosterone and supraphysiologic doses of nandrolone? And those results show that 100% of your sample size(more than 1 person) had no issues with ED/libido? Even with extremely high prolactin levels? Even though about every endocrin journal has found a link between prolactin and libido/ED?

If what you are saying is true, than that means everyone is the same. So all of us should be bigger than ronnie coleman and we all should have our pro-cards. (because we are all the exact same right?)

you seem to not understand my post and thats fine, maybe its my fault. deca causes libido and erection problems because it shuts you down IF you are taking in even an hrt/trt level of testosterone you will have no libido/erection problems. What anything I said had to do with colman is beyond me though. But yes, we are all pretty damn close.

[propionator]

What Im saying is we are all different and nandrolone raises prolactin levels. In some males, this can cause ED/Libido problems no matter how much test they use. Some men (medic) can use nandrolone by itself and have no issues.You cant make blanket statements like "NO ONE" and "EVERYONE" unless you've actually spoken with every single person whos ever used test and nandro.

[onyx.h]

Originally Posted by propionator

What Im saying is we are all different and deca raises prolactin levels. In some males, this can cause ED/Libido problems no matter how much test they use. You cant make blanket statements like "NO ONE" and "EVERYONE" unless you've actually spoken with every single person whos ever used test and nandro.

not true man. sorry