Cycle advise

[allpro666]

Hey guys. Im on my 6th cycle and this is my first cycle with deca. So Im running 400mgs of deca with 900mgs of super test per week. Now I'm starting to hear horror stories about deca. I'm gonna run the deca for 12 weeks and the test for 14 which will be my longest cycle ever. Does that sound good? All I've even known and used for pct is nolva and clomid which I ll start 3 weeks after last test shot. How much do u guys think I should take?? I'm starting to hear more forms of pct during and after cycles which I never taken and don't really know what they are. Are they necessary ?

[KhaMD]

Others can give you better advice on the stack, I don't use deca.

The reason for me alone, is that almost anything you stack it with is going to convert to estrogen, hence an anti-estrogen. Deca can convert to prolactin, which will produce gyncomastia and won't respond to conventional estro blockers. Now you can easily get a prolactin inhibitor, but now you have two producers of the same symptoms. Sucks, as I prefer to limit any anti-estros to allow for some estrogens as they have benefits in low amounts. So I don't like to have to take 2 blockers if I feel the nipple tingle. But that's just me.

But prolactin sensitivity isnt universal. Tons of guys swear by deca and have no problem. But til you know have a quick source for An prolactin inhibitor. I think nless you know your body and have many cycles under your belt, keep any anti-estros you might need on hand.

There is already to much post-cycle knowledge on here. Look around for it bro. May even be a section for it.

[ALIN]

Hey guys. Im on my 6th cycle and this is my first cycle with deca. So Im running 400mgs of deca with 900mgs of super test per week. Now I'm starting to hear horror stories about deca. I'm gonna run the deca for 12 weeks and the test for 14 which will be my longest cycle ever. Does that sound good? All I've even known and used for pct is nolva and clomid which I ll start 3 weeks after last test shot. How much do u guys think I should take?? I'm starting to hear more forms of pct during and after cycles which I never taken and don't really know what they are. Are they necessary ?

We use CLOMID and NOLVA for PCT for 3 weeks. Always has worked well with us.

[KhaMD]

We use CLOMID and NOLVA for PCT for 3 weeks. Always has worked well with us.

No HCG needed? Deca though moderate seems to be a tough pct. but again I don't use it personally. So that's why I was wondering about the HCG.

[markmark]

Deca at 400mg wk. is the max i would use with no worries. But 900mg. of test sounds a little high for a 6th cycle, could bring on an estrogen gyno if not carefull.
why such a high dosage?

[allpro666]

Well I thought that was maybe a little high too. But I got test 450 so im taking two shots a week. And I have noticed that my nips are a little sensitive to the touch. So I just started taking 10mgs of nolva now

[KhaMD]

If your nipples are sensitive you are having estro issues, no doubt. Is there a reason for going with such an early generation estro blocker. I have noticed many thread and nolvadex comes up. PCT, yeah, but why not use current estro inhibitotrs instead? Long term 5 yr study definitively proved that arimidex is far superior... Letro even more so.

If you go with the nolvadex, I might start a bit higher, say 20mg. See if the symptoms stop. If they don't you can easily go as high as 40+mg per day if you must, but in that case I would definitely go with the bigger guns, Letro etc. If the 20mg stops the symptoms, stay at it for a week or so, and you can try to drop to 10 mg if you want. Really anti estros aren't the end of the world and gyncomastia sucks so lean towards over treating unless your dad is a plastic surgeon. Otherwise, way cheaper to prevent then fix.

Good luck with it bro. Don't wait around on it either.

[TheCthulhu]

If your nipples are sensitive you are having estro issues, no doubt. Is there a reason for going with such an early generation estro blocker. I have noticed many thread and nolvadex comes up. PCT, yeah, but why not use current estro inhibitotrs instead? Long term 5 yr study definitively proved that arimidex is far superior... Letro even more so.

If you go with the nolvadex, I might start a bit higher, say 20mg. See if the symptoms stop. If they don't you can easily go as high as 40+mg per day if you must, but in that case I would definitely go with the bigger guns, Letro etc. If the 20mg stops the symptoms, stay at it for a week or so, and you can try to drop to 10 mg if you want. Really anti estros aren't the end of the world and gyncomastia sucks so lean towards over treating unless your dad is a plastic surgeon. Otherwise, way cheaper to prevent then fix.

Good luck with it bro. Don't wait around on it either.

Letro is tremendous overkill imo for all other than someone with gyno lumps already formed that wants to get rid of them. For that, Letro works miracles. But taking it while on cycle will knock your estrogen levels down so low that you'll end up with nasty sides from LOW estrogen. I'd stick with Arimidex.......

[KhaMD]

Letro is tremendous overkill imo for all other than someone with gyno lumps already formed that wants to get rid of them. For that, Letro works miracles. But taking it while on cycle will knock your estrogen levels down so low that you'll end up with nasty sides from LOW estrogen. I'd stick with Arimidex.......

I hear what you are saying...but IMHO this is a user issue. Unless you are getting it non-liquid form... Just use the absolute least you need. It's often, in pre gyno athletes like a total of 1.5g or less per week. A fraction of what many are taking.

Dosed properly, I have only seen total gyno suppression and great hardness I am guessing stems from such full body versus breast tissue receptor binding leading to low water retention , but I am not sure there.

Just saying Letro is a great drug IMHO for any one who needs estro control, just in the right dosages.

Totally agree, excessive estro suppression is a problem, but I just think its completely avoidable for most when used properly.

Just what I have seen, but Letro is what we use. The very fact it is so strong is key. You can go to such precise dosages by administering and plasma testing. There will be a fairly precise dose that is dead on for optimal suppression. Find nolvadex while super useful is more likely to control in some cases, but fail later annoyingly.

I realize many will have Letro estro suppression stories, and probably post them. Some even on very low dosages... But in all cases just go lower... Lucky you, you need very little estro block, i mean many need nothing. But my whole point is with such a potent, but specific drug, sure you will see a lot of suprressions bc guys are not trained to use Letro, not bc it's just to strong IMO only of course.

Only use the absolute minimum you need for cessation of symptoms and it is usually way below the point of suppression. Logically it should... You will typically lose the nipple issues and water once the estro is in normal range, not at suppression. It's just a matter of finding this point. Harder to do without bloodwork, but doable totally on symptom watching.

Once you nail it, it's worth it IMHO. Feel like nolvadex is a less exact tool. It's strength is real, but not unmanageable.

[allpro666]

thx guys, im using the nolva because thats all i have on hand right now, ive never had problems while on cycle before. i know i should ve had some just in case but i dont, and im not sure where to get any around here. So will the nolva work for now or should i go to the doc if it gets worse?? where do the lumps appear if i were to get them??

[KhaMD]

thx guys, im using the nolva because thats all i have on hand right now, ive never had problems while on cycle before. i know i should ve had some just in case but i dont, and im not sure where to get any around here. So will the nolva work for now or should i go to the doc if it gets worse?? where do the lumps appear if i were to get them??

Under the nipple itself is most common. Yeah if a ll you have is nolvadex use it. But I would look for something stronger in case you get into trouble. When you need a drug is not the time to be tryin to find it.

If you have only had this problem on this cycle the other thing I would do is take a close look at what you are doing differently, stack/dosage wise. We all encounter gear that gives us problems. Great to identify them and avoid.

[Data]

I've been cycling steroids since '95. I'm not saying that to impress anyone just point out that I have some experience. At the moment I don't endorse anything but testosterone. I think all your needs can be met with testosterone. Its safe to abuse. Cheap to use. Arguably the most effective size/strength steroid.

With that said deca is a performance enhancing drug that has a good reputation for decades. Back in the late 90's it was said that anyone could make gains on a test/deca/dbol cycle. I think deca is a great safe drug.

Most of the garbage you hear on the internet about deca is going to be from some 20 year old kid who has read all the books but never tried a fucking thing. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys bash a drug and when I ask what their experience is with it ... haven't tried it. WTF?

I think 900mg testosterone and 400-600mg of deca is a great cycle.

[KhaMD]

I've been cycling steroids since '95. I'm not saying that to impress anyone just point out that I have some experience. At the moment I don't endorse anything but testosterone. I think all your needs can be met with testosterone. Its safe to abuse. Cheap to use. Arguably the most effective size/strength steroid.

With that said deca is a performance enhancing drug that has a good reputation for decades. Back in the late 90's it was said that anyone could make gains on a test/deca/dbol cycle. I think deca is a great safe drug.

Most of the garbage you hear on the internet about deca is going to be from some 20 year old kid who has read all the books but never tried a fucking thing. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys bash a drug and when I ask what their experience is with it ... haven't tried it. WTF?

I think 900mg testosterone and 400-600mg of deca is a great cycle.

I agree very few guys need more then a nice long acting test. It's very effective and can achieve major results alone.

IMO these reason stacks are getting so complex is availability and guys starting off cycling at way too high dosages. "I'm thinking of running my first cycle, blah blah blah, probably going with 400-600mg of test and maybe some tren" are these people serious? Too many bros think it is all chemistry and now they can get the exotics... Though of questionable quality.

Point is yeah, I put on 23.75lbs lol, still remember on my first cycle of just 250 of sust a week for 12 weeks. Why would I use more?

I will say, I love deca as a drug, but I hate it sides. For some reason I get prolactin related gyno issues every time with deca, and it's a bitch to control even with cabergoline. That's what caused me to swear off deca. But I loved the experience otherwise with test. I envy those who can use it without problems.

It is a very good drug for most

[KhaMD]

I think 900mg testosterone and 400-600mg of deca is a great cycle.

Just want to clarify for newbies, I am sure you just meant the combo is great, not that that exact cycle is a suggestion. That's some decent gear totals, nothing outrageous, but definitely not for a beginners intro to deca/test. Bit to high, esp on the test for a newb yeah?

[allpro666]

thx for the replies guys, how big do the gyno bumps get and are they noticeable to the eye or just the touch?? i dont know if im just getting paranoid but i think i feel a tiny small bump on top of my nipple

[allpro666]

yep definatly got a pea size lump above my nipple, i guess better go to the doc

[KhaMD]

yep definatly got a pea size lump above my nipple, i guess better go to the doc

Will warn you, prepare to be pretty underwhelmed by the initial experience. You said you were on nolvadex. It's obviously not working well. I was explaining on another thread why Letro is the proper anti estro in almost any case or if not arimidex, these can stop and to a degree reverse the damage. Just depends a lot person to person. My point is letro is usable in small amounts, but can be ramped up and will handlembigger probelms. Complaints of excessive estro depression by some are bc they are dosing too high.

This is unfortunate, But be prepared to know more about Most things related to blockers, typical symptoms etc. if it is just your average primary care family dr. He may or may not even be able to get you your meds... May send of to an endocrinologist who at least will have a clue.mbut getting in with ma specialist can take time. I'd get the Letro myself, should take 3-4 days tops. Your insurance may work faster, but mine wouldn't then just ordering it.

[TheCthulhu]

Will warn you, prepare to be pretty underwhelmed by the initial experience. You said you were on nolvadex. It's obviously not working well. I was explaining on another thread why Letro is the proper anti estro in almost any case or if not arimidex, these can stop and to a degree reverse the damage. Just depends a lot person to person. My point is letro is usable in small amounts, but can be ramped up and will handlembigger probelms. Complaints of excessive estro depression by some are bc they are dosing too high.

This is unfortunate, But be prepared to know more about Most things related to blockers, typical symptoms etc. if it is just your average primary care family dr. He may or may not even be able to get you your meds... May send of to an endocrinologist who at least will have a clue.mbut getting in with ma specialist can take time. I'd get the Letro myself, should take 3-4 days tops. Your insurance may work faster, but mine wouldn't then just ordering it.

Yeah, Letro is the go-to drug for real gyno (lumps). It works wonders..........

And yes, I doubt the doctor will do anything but refer you to an endo or a urologist - whom you'll probably have to wait a month to see..........

It should also go without saying, but make sure the lump is indeed a lump and not simply cystic acne. It sounds ridiculous, but I've seen the two mixed up before.......

[allpro666]

i just started taking the nolva a few days ago, i dont see any letro or arimdex or the "overseas connections list" And at least the doc should be able to tell me if it is gyno or not right?

[markmark]

something is wrong here .. You stated this to be your 6th cycle yet you know nothing about gyno , little about dex, letro and other available drugs. you can find all info here if you search for the answers.STOP YOUR CYCLE AND START PCT NOW. Read more and educate yourself well and plan your next cycle the right way. You will get better results and you will have no regrets after . my 2c

[KhaMD]

something is wrong here .. You stated this to be your 6th cycle yet you know nothing about gyno , little about dex, letro and other available drugs. you can find all info here if you search for the answers.STOP YOUR CYCLE AND START PCT NOW. Read more and educate yourself well and plan your next cycle the right way. You will get better results and you will have no regrets after . my 2c

Wow, nice post. I am so used to going right to solving the problem that I miss the forest for the trees.

No offense to the original poster bro, and I still would suggest Letro to you, regardless of mistakes you may or may not have made, since you have a lump developing... But I agree with the above post. If this is your cycling history, you NEED to know these things. Not saying you aren't being honest, I have many guys who go far into their steroid use without basic key information, but you know I am usually talking to them because something has gone wrong.

You have gotten away with a lot bro, count yourself lucky and familiarize yourself with all aspects of what you are using and might need. I mean this to be helpful, not critical, and I think the same for the above poster... You are too far along to not know basics. You are essentially being your own endocrinologist when you cycle, that's a whole lotta schooling to be one, and it's your job bc of our ridiculous laws. Don't take it lightly.