Supporting cheats?

[gottogrow]

Okay, here is a moral question I'm facing. I'm trying to decide if I'm being too harsh and unreasonable.

A mate of mine, who I see every night at the gym, is getting ready for his next contest in the ANB. Since I've competed a few times before he sometimes askes for my opinion on things and I guess it's kinda expected that we'd all rally to support him.

The issue is, I know he's a cheat. Not a hardcore planned decit kinda cheat. More like he's used bits and pieces before and doesn't see the harm since "everyone at these comps cheats".
We're talking about things like clen and pro hormones. Even then, I'm pretty sure he's done more.

What would you do? I've said my piece about him being a cheat. Would you still give him advice? Would you wish him good luck? Would you congratulate him?

[Legend]

All depends how good a mate he is and if you actually saw him use the things you say he has...otherwise it's all heresay.

Karmas a bitch and those who cheat get caught sooner or later

[nitro]

You can report him to asada if he has competed in the last 12 months with ANB

[dungeonman]

Im also aware of an individual who takes the pro-hormones and competes in natural competitions. This individual believes its not cheating as its in pill form i would do what you have done and say what you think and not give him advice/goodluck/ congratulations. Hopefully they all get caught out!

[Hound_Dog]

Its his guilt to live with mate. You have spoken your mind to him, he knows where you stand. Keep helping him, but continue to jokingly needle (pun intended) him about his usage.

[catalyst]

Ahhh, the problem with natural competitions. I am natural as long as I pass a drug test on the day. It is the problem with natural bodybuilding. If he is blood tested it may pick up more but still it comes down to his conscience which sounds like it is rather lacking. I would not be giving him too much advice. From the sounds of it he is not likely to be a front runner because of his low self esteem hence why he is doing ANB and not NABBA or IFBB.

[Alchemy]

You do have a very serious problem that definitely needs to be address .Do you possible lose your friendship or do you support your hobby which you are so passionate about and inform the appropriate authorities regarding this matter.........hmhmhm ?????

Or maybe you should just focus on getting freaky massive and let you friend deal with all the problems that may arise from his own decision

Its a tough call to make

Alc

[mr vic]

Ah hmh clearing my throat

NATURAL BODYBUILDING IS AN OXYMORON

[sticklegs]

I've been in that position myself and have looked my friend in the eye and told him "We're still mates but as a bodybuilder I have no respect for those that cheat in natural comps". He was quite taken a back. I didn't help him or congratulate him on his third place in a class of four. But I did shoot him down when I heard him saying the guys that beat him must have been on gear. We're not really mates anymore.

[meataxe]

You can't really report him to ASADA as it's all hearsay, unless you have actually seem him digest/inject a substance. You never know it may have been all talk, and if you report to them, Clen can't be picked-up so no point. If it's an issue you need to talk to him personally, don't try and force your thoughts down his throat, just tell him how you feel.

[Sandman]

Snitches r bitches
That is all.

[NBK]

I have been in this exact situation. He wasn't a close mate of mine, but we chatted at the gym and he told me when he was on gear. I found out he was dieting for a natural comp less than 6 months after admitting he was on a cycle.. fuck that! I told ASADA, I told ANB and I know he was tested. Of course he had been 'clean' for 6 months so nothing showed up in his test, but at least he knows he will get tested. I don't care at all about guys taking gear, but when they get on stage next to nattys that have put in the hard yards to build muscle, its just a low act.

You are in a bit of a shit situation, being that he is a mate - you don't want to dob him into ASADA etc but me personally I would not be giving him advice, wishing him luck, or congratulating him. You're not being too harsh AT ALL. He needs to know that its a totally immoral act, and he shouldn't be supported

[skywalka]

Clen can't be picked-up

Are you saying you Clen can't be detected in someone's system? I thought Reni Matua tested positive for Clen in the NRL.

[BIGGUY86]

sandman nailed it.

mate im very firm on this ... u cant be a dog .


however ur mate or watever is wats wrong with bodybuilding ... and u should tell him so ...

[M.O.]

After the ANB, let him know the 2012 London Paralympic Games are coming up in August. He can pretend to have a disability and try win gold.

Actually, give him that one in a mate-joke kinda way.

[gottogrow]

Yeah, I'd never snitch on the guy. I like HDs idea of needling him when it comes up. But other than that, im leaving it alone.
Alc is right, I got my own shit to worry about in the gym.

[mr vic]

Why is it in many many Olympic sports we know that athletes are on to do what they do , tour defrance hey cmon they invented doping . Its rampant competing juiced up and beating a test in so many sports
But bodybuilders cant do it ?? Not that i care it just seems well double standards to me , quite frankly i dont pay attentionnto what others may do i just concentrate on my own buisiness
Just a thought

[drugs-are-bad]

Are you saying you Clen can't be detected in someone's system? I thought Reni Matua tested positive for Clen in the NRL.

Clenbuterol hydrochloride can be detected for 'up to' 12 days on an IOC accredited drug profile. I have known Olympic athletes to fail at 10 days and others to pass at 8 days.

Legitimate random testing makes it a gamble, but several friends compete for countries that only have set date tests (yes, they still exist) and can plan appropriately.

[musclemutt]

And you don't see the draw card competitors tested in the Natural federations, the ones that bring in the crowds to see them compete.......some tests are wasted on people that place fourth etc and the biggies not even sniffed at......is it selected criteria?...so they can say well we are upholding the ASADA testing ...look at our testing results......mmmmmmmmm food for thought.

[Pro Luke Timms]

i could be wrong but was told by a natty contest guru all his guys use t3 comin into contest even thouh its catabolic. i said isnt it banned if so just use clen .- his response its not on the asada banned list....

[NBK]

I think if you know that someone is cheating, you have a duty to notify the federation. the more that get away with it, the worse Natural Bodybuilding will be in the long run.

[nitro]

I think if you know that someone is cheating, you have a duty to notify the federation. the more that get away with it, the worse Natural Bodybuilding will be in the long run.

Don't bother telling the federation too many protected species tell asada

[yarakefendi]

why do you care so much its not like your competing along side him?

At the end of the day the majority of so called 'natural' bodybuilders are on something, i personally know so many ANB champions that abuse GHRP6, insulin, GH just to say the least. i know its not fair if your clean and the guy next to you in on growth… but the reality of natural body building is that its sad and misunderstood. I don't even think there is such a thing these days.

Snitches are Bitches… Enough said.

[AVBG]

I'd mind my own business, let the authorities (ASADA) do what they get paid to do and if they're too far behind the game to catch out cheats then so be it... It's hardly worth the potential repercussions should the person find out you're the dog.

[joshdickinson]

where is the personal integrity? cant control the actions of others, some just want a shallow win. Its why I think its funny when they get smoked on stage

[Gavin77]

If your mate is willing to take drugs and compete in natural bodybuilding federations then so be it. You cannot control what other people choose to do to themselves and I'm sure he knows the consequences if he gets caught.

It's really up to the drug testing agencies to catch people that choose to take performance enhancing drugs and compete in natural federations. I certainly would NOT dob him in, but that's just my opinion.

At the end of the day when I compete I don't care how other people look, all I care about is being in the best condition I can be in.

[sistasteel]

I 'm not sure where you read that clen cannot be detected, and I may be wrong, but youn can detect this substance as little as 8 days from testing. Have you all forgotten Albuto Contrador in the Tour De France Feb 6 2010, not to mention if you look at ASADA website their are many that have failed due to Clen!

[Legend]

I 'm not sure where you read that clen cannot be detected, and I may be wrong, but youn can detect this substance as little as 8 days from testing. Have you all forgotten Albuto Contrador in the Tour De France Feb 6 2010, not to mention if you look at ASADA website their are many that have failed due to Clen!

Read post #18

[meataxe]

I 'm not sure where you read that clen cannot be detected, and I may be wrong, but youn can detect this substance as little as 8 days from testing. Have you all forgotten Albuto Contrador in the Tour De France Feb 6 2010, not to mention if you look at ASADA website their are many that have failed due to Clen!

LOL @ 8 Days!! So yeah, basically it can't be detected!!

[klow08]

Natural BB = oxymoron. Will never be respected because 3/4 have or do use. FACT

[Outlaw53]

Natural BB = oxymoron. Will never be respected because 3/4 have or do use. FACT

Is this your own personal opinion/make believe/fairy tale fact, or a real fact that you can actually back up with actual facts and figures?

Losers that cheat on drug tests are not the ones winning the comps, so it is going to make very little difference anyway.
The clean guys are the ones winning, so let the cheats cheat all they want, it just adds to their humiliation later on when a natty guy kicks their sorry arse.

[catalyst]

Is this your own personal opinion/make believe/fairy tale fact, or a real fact that you can actually back up with actual facts and figures?

Losers that cheat on drug tests are not the ones winning the comps, so it is going to make very little difference anyway.
The clean guys are the ones winning, so let the cheats cheat all they want, it just adds to their humiliation later on when a natty guy kicks their sorry arse.

Beat me to the punch. I believe most competitors that compete naturally are actually natural. There are cheats but they don't last long when they realize it is not actually that easy to win a natural show.

[martin007]

LOL at the snitches and dogs comments, this is not the school playground.

What kind of mate put's there friends in the position the OP is in?? A shite mate, one with no respect for anyone.

I like stick legs comment, especially the last sentence... Not being friends anymore. IMO the kind of person it takes to cheat in natty shows often turn out to be dogs themselves. The few i know who have tested positive for banned substances are all fuck heads. It takes a certain person to KNOWINGLY use banned substances and compete in tested comps... But it takes a whole different asshole to do the aforementioned AND gloat to their bodybuilding mates about it.

[martin007]

i could be wrong but was told by a natty contest guru all his guys use t3 comin into contest even thouh its catabolic. i said isnt it banned if so just use clen .- his response its not on the asada banned list....

That's interesting. It is on the banned list..... Not quite a 'guru' then....

[ATHLETIX]

You can't really report him to ASADA as it's all hearsay, unless you have actually seem him digest/inject a substance. You never know it may have been all talk, and if you report to them, Clen can't be picked-up so no point. If it's an issue you need to talk to him personally, don't try and force your thoughts down his throat, just tell him how you feel.

Meataxe, I know you are pretty switched on in this industry and I often admire your stance on certain things, but what you just said about hearsay is not true. In the criminal justice system yes, hearsay is not admissible in Court however the information can still be acted upon. Same with ASADA.

For example, I telephoned ASADA 2 years ago about a steroid user who was playing country rugby league at the time. His sister told me he was using and so did two of his mates. I gave this information to ASADA and although hearsay, they still acted on the information. It turns out I wasn't the only one who had called ASADA about him.

Based on this 'hearsay' ASADA conducted their own investigation and tested him. He did return a positive A and B sample therefore he was suspended for 7 years.

I have had recent conversations with ASADA on the phone whereby they have encouraged hearsay evidence because sadly, it is the majority of the evidence they receive. They are desperate for it and want people to speak up.

We're trying to build a healthy sporting nation here. A sporting lifestyle that we can market towards the youth of today and tomorrow who can carry on the strong Australian sporting legacy that we've worked so hard for.

If someone is cheating, they deserve to be found out. Whether its through their own undoing or from the help of those around them that they so bluntly disrespect.

[NBK]

We're trying to build a healthy sporting nation here. A sporting lifestyle that we can market towards the youth of today and tomorrow who can carry on the strong Australian sporting legacy that we've worked so hard for.

If someone is cheating, they deserve to be found out. Whether its through their own undoing or from the help of those around them that they so bluntly disrespect.

I agree with this. If you know someone is cheating, it is respect for other competitors to alert ASADA. They might not be caught out as they stopped in time, but atleast ASADA have their name on record and the cheat gets tested. It's the least you can do

[Zoloft]

No advice, no support, no congrats IF they even place and no respect.
Lay this out to them and see how you go, if your the type of person who's bothered by this and he isn't I'm not understanding how your mates.
I'm not saying mates should agree on everything but in this game some shits a straight deal breaker.

[yakabebe]

Tough situation but frankly...calling ASADA in these sorts of cases and having a collective mentality where we are encouraged to call in and "dob in a cheat" really sticks in my craw.

Not the sort of society I see Australia being. Reminds me of the Nazi Germany mind-set where neighbors called the authorities on their neighbors.

Far better to deal with it like a man...face to face....speak your piece and if he ignores you - decide if he is to remain in your circle.

[mr_natural]

wow... where the fuck do i start...

for those that go on about guilty conscience... what about the poor cunt losing sleep every nite... 4 weeks leading up to comp knowing that a person they are going head to head with is not clean... it crushes u physically and mentally,,.. laying there... ur mind... tick tick tick... its fucked...

people say no respect or glory... but they have no regard for the people who they are competing against... or the person saying they wont get respect... they still get congratulated by every other deluded person they interact with..

as for people saying snitches are bitches... what about the people cheating? lower than bitches?
it is one prevalent factor adversely affecting my psychological state leading up to comp... knowing who is and isnt clean...


i could go on for days but i will leave it at that...

[RazZ]

Yer I know of 2 naturals title holders who have used various illegal substances to win events against genuine naturals, its none of my business so I let it go.
Mind you, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when they brag on occassion or use their title status as leverage to try and win respect during discussions on various topics online and in social circles.

Any dickhead can gear up for game on within naturals events... but since narking is for school girls, you just gotta let it go and get on with your own business.