Health Management | Blood Tests Information | Safe Steroid Use

[MrAust92]

A while back (before the big crash) I posted about getting your bloodwork done and a recommended bunch of tests that your GP can request for you. I have been asked recently to repost this info so here it is.

If you are using AAS and want to remain healthy (which any sane individual does) then the following is a useful guide for getting bloodwork done.

Full Blood Count (FBC)
Androgen count
Estrogen count
Thyroid function
Total Cholesterol (including HDL and LDL)
Liver function
Kidney function
Prostate (PSA)

For the average "healthy" AAS user (If there is such a thing) this array of tests will provide useful information as to your overall health and the pathology costs can be bulk billed so you re not out of pocket.

If you have a family history of cardiac problems then you might want to consider adding in some specific testing such as cardiac stress testing, (heart health is no laughing matter).

When you attend your Dr to get the paperwork a check of blood pressure and resting heart rate are also recommended as useful indicators to be monitored.

I have been in this game 20 years and firmly believe that you can use BBing meds sensibly without jeapourdising your health but you MUST monitor so corrective action can be taken if necessary.

You only have one body so dont fuck with it.

Best of luck

MA92

[TJ]

Perfect timing for this post, as some know during my hospital stay after the back surgery we discovered I was a diabetic, we use different numbers here in the states but to give you and idea normal is 90-150, mine usually reads anywhere from 250-350 even with the oral meds. I've balked at going back to the doctor for this because I fear he'll put me on insulin which ironically is the one drug I've steered clear of all these years because of how dangerous it is. But after reading the side effects you've listed brother I have all of them, the blurred vision really hit home because it has been a real problem for me lately, sometimes I can't even drive it's so bad. And don't get me started on the lethargy/tiredness!!!

Guess I'll have to suck it up and get my arse into the doctor's office before I croak from this.

[MrAust92]

TJ

Do not hesitate mate, those are some big number you have there.

Australia measures blood glucose in mmol, in the USA you use mg/dl but its easy to convert, 1 mmol = 18 mg/dl.

Your numbers (250 -350) convert to 13.9 to 19.5 in mmol which is seriously diabetic. Above 126 mg/dl glucose is bonding to your red blood cells and above 180 mg/dl you are pissing out glucose and protein in your urine which means you are not growing and in the long term it will damage your kidneys.

Insulin is risky for non-diabetics to play games with, its a life saver and health preserver for those cursed with diabetes.

Go and see the Dr and get your diagnosis sorted out but I would thoroughly recommend you spend a few hundred dollars for a month's worth of consulting with Colette Nelson (www.colettenelson.com). This lady is a genius and despite being diabetic since age 11 and having to take insulin with every bite of food she puts in her mouth she lives full life and competes as an IFBB pro BBer.

Untreated diabetes will lead to:

Blindness.
Kidney disease.
Nerve damage.
Impotence.
Cardiovascular disease.
Impaired circulation (ever notice the diabetics with their feet amputated??)

Dont delay.

[Blue Healer]

Great info MA, & your right about most gp's, they just don't have a bloody clue, or just don't want to know.

A question for you, I have the opposite problem, I have problems with low blood sugar. I get it after eating and it can hit me at any time. I can get it after eating a balanced meal, anytime of the day. I don't eat simple carbs, so that is not the cause. My mum has suffered from it for years (60 or so, lol). So after eating and going hypo, I then have to eat some more carbs to level out my sugar levels. I had a big hypo about 10 years ago and raced into the docs surgery, told him what was going on, told him that my mums side of the family has a history of diabetes, and the wanker tested for everything but blood sugar, so I walked out and haven't been near a doctor until last week to get some skin cancers looked at on my face. Sorry I have no faith in the medical community at all and if I could cut the skin cancers out myself I would, lol.

Anyway, sorry to ramble, but in your experience could this be related to what you are talking about or be a whole different issue ?

[MrAust92]

Howdy BH

Im really not sure mate, this hit me out of the blue so I am still learning about it.

Its possible that you may be very sensitive to your bodies own insulin which is produced in response to aeating carbs.

For example, you eat chciken and rice, the rice spike your blood sugar and your pancreas responds by releasing insulin. If you body is sensitised to the slin then it could be working "too well" and reducing your blood sugar levels lower than pre-meal levels by shuttling the glucose into your muscle and fat cells.

Something to try (if you arent already) is adding a little extra healty fat to these meals (nuts, macadamia oil, fish oil etc) and see if that slows things down a bit.

Getting your meals in on time would also help but when you are working out in the paddock Im sure that isnt always possible mate.

Forget the average GP mate, they are only good for prescriptions and medical certificates for bludgers.

[Blue Healer]

Howdy BH

Im really not sure mate, this hit me out of the blue so I am still learning about it.

Its possible that you may be very sensitive to your bodies own insulin which is produced in response to aeating carbs.

For example, you eat chciken and rice, the rice spike your blood sugar and your pancreas responds by releasing insulin. If you body is sensitised to the slin then it could be working "too well" and reducing your blood sugar levels lower than pre-meal levels by shuttling the glucose into your muscle and fat cells.

Something to try (if you arent already) is adding a little extra healty fat to these meals (nuts, macadamia oil, fish oil etc) and see if that slows things down a bit.

Getting your meals in on time would also help but when you are working out in the paddock Im sure that isnt always possible mate.

Forget the average GP mate, they are only good for prescriptions and medical certificates for bludgers.

Lol, yeah hear you there. Yeah I might try adding in a bit more fat. Most times eating isn't a problem, I take food with me if I am doin tractor work or harvesting as we don't stop for meals. We might do 16 or 17 hour shifts (no oh&s people here is there ) and eat on the go. Thanks to gps and auto steer we can just sit back and let the computer drive. I know it's a hard job but someone has to do it, lol.

Plus now most machines have a drink cooler under the seat which runs off the air con so I have no excuse for not eating right most of the time.

I think you might be right in what you say though, I was sort of thinking along those lines but as always am looking for input from others, thanks mate.

[mr vic]

It always makes me laugh when guys in pre comp go hey im off the carbs or im on low carbs and they chow down on white rice like its going out of fashion

[MrAust92]

It always makes me laugh when guys in pre comp go hey im off the carbs or im on low carbs and they chow down on white rice like its going out of fashion

LOL, white rice is poison, you might as well just spoon table sugar into your mouth. I love the stuff but I dont eat it any more

[mr vic]

I wonder how 'low carb' older time diets were, even like diets of those living in ancient times? They still had access to an abundance of fruit and naturally occurring sugars so it may not be all about sugars and carbs per se but processed sugars and carb foods? Or or or.... they just didn't shovel as much bloody food into their guts like we do in modern society!

Mate you are so spot on with this statement its the processed to and inch of its very life carbs eg simple sugars that are so prevellant in modern diets that cause the issue and also we normally notice we have an issue after eating thess foods for many years the damage to proper glucose metabolism has been done ,

You know the feeling we get of being full eg after a big feed imo its not normal, satiety and that feeling are very different but we now associate the feeling of that fullness as a good thing , it is simply your body saying this is too much , i hope this makes sense ,

[TJ]

Holy shit are you saying I'd have to take a shot every time I ate? I eat 6-8 times a day thats a lot of pinning to do. Man with the hypogonadism (Low Test levels naturally) and now diabetes I'll be prescribed a strong cycle legally between the Testosterone and Insulin, LOL. And no I'm not taken this jokingly, I mean I'm making jokes but I know it's serious and have a doctor's appointment to see what the next step is the Januvia and other med he gave me in October didn't do anything to lower the numbers!

[MrAust92]

Holy shit are you saying I'd have to take a shot every time I ate? I eat 6-8 times a day thats a lot of pinning to do. Man with the hypogonadism (Low Test levels naturally) and now diabetes I'll be prescribed a strong cycle legally between the Testosterone and Insulin, LOL. And no I'm not taken this jokingly, I mean I'm making jokes but I know it's serious and have a doctor's appointment to see what the next step is the Januvia and other med he gave me in October didn't do anything to lower the numbers!

Everyone is different, diabetes is a very complex condition and thats what Colette does, works with the patient (in her case athletes) to individualise the approach.

[Little Fella]

LOL, white rice is poison, you might as well just spoon table sugar into your mouth. I love the stuff but I dont eat it any more

what about basmarti rice mate i thought it was a good white rice compared to the other general varieties...


i usually go between it and brown rice......on a daily basis for my meals

[MrAust92]

what about basmarti rice mate i thought it was a good white rice compared to the other general varieties...


i usually go between it and brown rice......on a daily basis for my meals

Basmati rice taste like arse..............

Seriously mate, Im sure it probably raises blood sugar more slowly than jasmine rice for they all spike me high as my glucose metabolism isnt quite right.

I would rather eat fats (nuts etc) than basmati rice anyway.

[hairyballs07]

Basmati rice taste like arse..............

I would rather eat fats (nuts etc) than basmati rice anyway.

Come over to my place for dinner any time you like MrAust and I'll feed you some nuts!

[Little Fella]

Come over to my place for dinner any time you like MrAust and I'll feed you some nuts!

lol hairy im sure aust wants a meal not a snack....

[hairyballs07]

Ahhh, Pepsi Challange eh???

Don't worry about the potatoes, it's the meat that counts. Ask your sister Little Fella, she'll vouch for me!!!

[Little Fella]

Ahhh, Pepsi Challange eh???

Don't worry about the potatoes, it's the meat that counts. Ask your sister Little Fella, she'll vouch for me!!!

sorry to hijack your thread aust......

yer hairy she said you were ok (for about a minute) but she prefers big guys lol

[MrAust92]

Let it roll boys, I am enjoying this.

[MrAust92]

Come over to my place for dinner any time you like MrAust and I'll feed you some nuts!

LittleLady reckons you only have one testicle anyway..............

[Little Fella]

LittleLady reckons you only have one testicle anyway..............

lol thats right & its very small.... but on the up side it is way hairy (so he does some what liveup to his name lol)

[TJ]

MA92, thanks for prodding me into getting something done about this, I have an appointment for Thursday morning to get the ball rolling. I will probably have to take insulin shots for a while but they said once the back is better to the point I can exercise again on a regular basis I'll probably be able to come off that so it's going to be temporary shots hopefully. Will be a great relief to get rid of some of those side effects you listed that go together with high sugar levels. Thanks again brother!!!

[MrAust92]

lol thats right & its very small.... but on the up side it is way hairy (so he does some what liveup to his name lol)

I have heard he gets Flexed21 to wax his little raisin for him........

[TJ]

Well just got back from the diabetes doc visit with his nurse, she said they will try other meds and dietary changes 1st before jumping to insulin so this may not be as bad as I originally thought it would be. Have to meet with their nutritionist next week to go over what I can have, actually they said I can have everything I eat now just may have to change quantities of it.

[MrAust92]

Well just got back from the diabetes doc visit with his nurse, she said they will try other meds and dietary changes 1st before jumping to insulin so this may not be as bad as I originally thought it would be. Have to meet with their nutritionist next week to go over what I can have, actually they said I can have everything I eat now just may have to change quantities of it.

Glad to hear it mate, this is your long term health we are talking about so dont roll the dice.

I would still suggest having a consult with Colette. Conventional diabetes therapies are barely out of the dark ages, Colette is light years ahead in terms of ongoing management and miantaining the lifestyle we all love.

Her views will differ quite a bit from the conventional Drs but it could change your life (for the better).

[Chyna]

JW just put me onto your thread MrAust92.

I'm finding it very interesting.

Since late last year I've been having big issues with carbs, clean, simple and otherwise and sever water retention.

I'd keep it clean on load days and gain 6kg in 2 hours with water retention, my heart rate went through the roof and I was flogged by the end of the day.

I went to 3 different doctors only to be told stuff like, stop lifing and go home and stick to housewife duties, or the body doesn't know good carbs from bad just eat them and you'll adjust. Eating to blood type is crap and "yeah your bloods are good so stop obsessing and starting eating normal food like everyone else." Are these guys for real, the stuff was like poison to me.

I cracked it big time and have since taken things into my own hands.
Gluten free is making a great improvement, so wheat is out. Keeping carbs to training times is working, high fats is wonderful and I dropped 8kg of retained fluid in 3 days eating this way.

I'll keep experimenting and sticking to my guns, still say keto is for me.

I'll keep tabs in this thread and should we meet up at a comp, I'd like to chat more with you about it.

Cheers

[MrAust92]

Hi Coral

Thats pretty mcuh what I do, keto with added carbs around training times and Im doing OK. I havent regained all my size but when I was feeling really crappy I was down to 104 kg, Im now back to 114 kg and doing OK.

I think some of us become less carb tolerant as we age (Im pretty sure we are both in our 40s) and in many ways this was a valuable lesson to me.

I do miss carbs at times (toast with Vegemite and fresh orange juice ) but I am feeling fit and healthy and Im training well so I cant complain.

I will be at the Southerns this weekend with JW so say hello (Im the bald guy, JW is the pretty one).

[Chyna]

Hi Coral

Thats pretty mcuh what I do, keto with added carbs around training times and Im doing OK. I havent regained all my size but when I was feeling really crappy I was down to 104 kg, Im now back to 114 kg and doing OK.

I think some of us become less carb tolerant as we age (Im pretty sure we are both in our 40s) and in many ways this was a valuable lesson to me.

I do miss carbs at times (toast with Vegemite and fresh orange juice ) but I am feeling fit and healthy and Im training well so I cant complain.

I will be at the Southerns this weekend with JW so say hello (Im the bald guy, JW is the pretty one).

LOL ok so I look for the shiney dome on Sunday, gotcha

[Pacesetter]

I am beginning to wonder if prolonged low-carb dieting can trigger carb intolerances in some people? Probably definitely an age thing as well as you point out^.

[TheDude]

Since AAS is known to lower blood sugar, I wonder if it can have any long lasting impacts.

[UNbuff]

I had something similar happen to me over a year or so ago. I'm 25 now, and Was getting a lot of lethargy in the afternoons, would nap every arvo and wake up feeling stuffed. My diet was not very good, It was a lot of carbs (oats, rice, potato) along with snacking on ALOT of chocolate and sh!t

Went to the doc and got blood tested, had a fasting glucose of 7.7, Urea was 11 and creatinine was 116, doctor diagnosed me first with Type 1 diabetes which scared the hell out of me, and on my second visit after a second blood test my glucose was 7, urea was 10 and creatinine 110 and he then diagnosed me with type 2 diabetes, but still wanted me to get onto insulin and liver and kidney tablets, along with quitting bodybuilding and all exercise I was not urinating sugar. He wanted me to immediatly start a diet of...

breakfast - 1 toast and egg
lunch - 1 sandwich with cheese and ham
dinner - salad and steak

The problem with this doctor was that he NEVER listened to a word I said, and was VERY difficult in just giving me my test results so i could ge a second opinion. He was oblivious to the fact I ate a lot of food and weight trained and NEVER asked me a question about myself or what i did.

I seeked out Classical homeopathy, as I heard good things about it. I switched my diet to keto, firstly CKD and then eventually TKD. I bought myself a glucose monitor where my bloods over time dropped from 7 down to 6, and now hover around 5 - 6 fasting.

I ended up getting a blood test only a couple months ago, and I was sh!tting myself. This doctor however seemed pretty cool, he was probably 20years older then the last one and I told him my story and got my bloods done. My fasting was now 6, my urea 8.5 and my creatinine 116.

I had seem him for something else on my checkout, which was xrays for something irrelevant to this glucose stuff... He handed my my xrays and he said

"yup your all in the clear mate..."
"ok great... what about my blood test results I came in for??"
*he looks over his shoulder "Oh your all good to go mate, no diabetes"
"But my fast is still around 6 etc"
"thats not diabetes, from my understanding with what your doing your eating a shitload, training very hard, its normal for your values to be alittle elevated, diabetes fasting is around 10 and over mate, just come back in 6months for another checkup"

I also asked him how long he'd been practicing and he told me 30years. I asked if he'd seen this in any other trainers and he said yes.

I asked for my test results and cringed slightly, as the last doc made it VERY difficult to even get a print out... this guy printed it all out instantly on his printer for me, he also had me tested for everything you can get done in a blood test which i was very happy about, the last doc got me tested on just glucose after I asked him!! He was just going to shoot my arse with B12, when infact my B12 was very high!!

And that was it, I couldn't believe it. Since my very first glucose test, to now, I can say no longer do I have afternoon lethargy, though I still enjoy a nap every now and then since I work physically for my job.

Putting on weight isn't too hard either, I bulk very lean on keto. I plan to continue my natural treatments also.

[pgde2]

I had a personal trainer who told me to change my diet using the metabolic type method. In my case I was a protein type and I had to have more protein and less carbs in my diet. I've been on this diet for about 3 weeks now and I've had to make major adjustments on taking out foods that I've been raised to eat for so many years. So starchy carby foods such as breads, rice are out now and I try to eat as much protein as I can along with non-starchy vegetables such broccolli, cauliflower, silver beet etc. Since trying this, I have reduced my issues of bloating and I've had a few occassions where I have stuffed my face with food and not get so bloated or fat. My PT also told me that eating fat is no issue. So egg yolks, fried bacon, butter etc can be included in my diet. If I crave for bread I would make it myself and sourdough seems to feel ok to me. But as I soon realised for one person making bread can be such a waste so I would order small quantities in the bakery.

Both sides of the family have a history of diabetes and I'm sure as hell wouldn't want to get this disease.

[MrAust92]

Hi All,

I was curious if any of you had or know of anyone who has had diabetes and cured it through weight training?

My old man has diabetes and I want to give him some insipration, he used to be on tablets but now he's on insulin injections :/

There is no "cure" per se however rigourous exercise and a low carbohydrate diet can reverse the symptoms of type 2 diabetes and the subject can achieve full control of their blood sugar through diet, allowing them to cease their medications.

There are case studies available on this, just fire up your search engine.

[UNbuff]

There is no "cure" per se however rigourous exercise and a low carbohydrate diet can reverse the symptoms of type 2 diabetes and the subject can achieve full control of their blood sugar through diet, allowing them to cease their medications.

There are case studies available on this, just fire up your search engine.

Yes there are cures. There's been people insulin dependent for many years and come off there insulin in as little as 2 days, with proper Homeopathic remedies selected by a qualified practitioner.

I at first didn't believe this, as we are all lead to believe that there are no cures, only drugs (which provide millions for pharmaceutical companies) but from my experiences and own personal research along with being treated for type 2 DB which i might now add my blood sugar fasting is now at 5.5, yes you can be cured. The remedies just stimulate your bodies own built in mechanism to heal itself, even if your pancreas has ceased to produce adequate insulin.

Theres a reason for every disease and why some people get them. The idea is to treat the cause, not the symptom.

What I'm saying will probably be argued and spoken against and that's just fine. Everyones entitled to there own opinion but when I get diagnosed with a disease I'll look for anyway possible to get rid of it.

[mr vic]

Go t my recent results back , from the suggested blood works panel listed at the begining of this thread,
All results where really good or as expected
The one issue i have is elevated Plasma Homocystine 31.6 umol/L , ref range (3.7-13.9)
Ant suggestions on what i need to so to lower this of if infact it an issue at all ,

Hope fully Alchemy will read this

[Bloodworks]

C-reactive Protein is not a very reliable indicator of cardiac risk. While it can be increased by inflammation of the atherosclerotic plaque in arteries, many factors interfere with it. Examples are a low fat diet, infections both viral and bacterial, inflammation of the joints/muscles due to training. It's release from the liver is stimulated by interleukin 6 (IL-6) released from both macrophages (white blood cells that "gobble up" foreign cells) and fat cells. This is the reason it could be high in dieting athletes.

Mr Vic: Homocysteine is an intermediate of methionine and cysteine and can be high due to lack of Vitamins B6, B9 and B12. It is high in a couple of genetic disorders that lead to increased thrombosis and coronary heart disease. That's due to its degradation of collagen, elastin and proteoglycans found in the artery walls. Interestingly, the B vitamins can lower the levels of homocysteine, but does not reduce the incidence of CHD.

As to blood tests, this is what I would suggest as a happy medium for general health screening and endocrine analysis.

Haemotolgy: RBC count and morphology, WBC fractions, packed cell volume.
Multiple Biochem analysis: electrolytes, urea, creatinine, LFT's
Iron studies: serum iron, ferritin, transferrin, saturation %
Lipid studies: HDL/LDL chol, triglycerides
PSA
Hormones:
Test: total and free
SHBG
E2
Cortisol
TSH
LH/FSH
IGF-I
Insulin

I wouldn't worry about anything else. This list is pretty comprehensive and should show up any red flags.

Hope this helps

[mr vic]

Thankyou for your reply

[quadricaurus]

C-reactive Protein is not a very reliable indicator of cardiac risk. While it can be increased by inflammation of the atherosclerotic plaque in arteries, many factors interfere with it. Examples are a low fat diet, infections both viral and bacterial, inflammation of the joints/muscles due to training. It's release from the liver is stimulated by interleukin 6 (IL-6) released from both macrophages (white blood cells that "gobble up" foreign cells) and fat cells. This is the reason it could be high in dieting athletes.

Mr Vic: Homocysteine is an intermediate of methionine and cysteine and can be high due to lack of Vitamins B6, B9 and B12. It is high in a couple of genetic disorders that lead to increased thrombosis and coronary heart disease. That's due to its degradation of collagen, elastin and proteoglycans found in the artery walls. Interestingly, the B vitamins can lower the levels of homocysteine, but does not reduce the incidence of CHD.

As to blood tests, this is what I would suggest as a happy medium for general health screening and endocrine analysis.

Haemotolgy: RBC count and morphology, WBC fractions, packed cell volume.
Multiple Biochem analysis: electrolytes, urea, creatinine, LFT's
Iron studies: serum iron, ferritin, transferrin, saturation %
Lipid studies: HDL/LDL chol, triglycerides
PSA
Hormones:
Test: total and free
SHBG
E2
Cortisol
TSH
LH/FSH
IGF-I
Insulin

I wouldn't worry about anything else. This list is pretty comprehensive and should show up any red flags.

Hope this helps

Hi

Sent a few pms but they dont seem to be getting thru

please email

hersuit@optusnet.com.au

[FBB]

Bugger me, I'm 178/96. Tested it 8 times now and the highest was 205/105 and lowest was 170/85. Off to the doctors this week...

[davepuppies]

FBB, as discussed last night, there a few lifestyle thingsd you can do to lower it naturally........

[FBB]

180/92 today...

[MrAust92]

Mate

Some of the natural strategies I mention above will work quite effectively if you give them a chance, esp if you have been a little sloppy with your preventative health of late.