TRT, fertility, etc.

[garyt1975]

Figured I would ask this here as I am almost 34...

I got hormone levels tested back in 2005, test, LH, FSH were all below low end of range, had MRI etc no problems found. Never had done prohormones or AAS before. Sperm count was excellent. Knowing all this I did a small 8 week cycle followed by PCT, since I was already messed up to an extent I didn't worry about it.

Kind of let this all go, didn't work out for a few years had some other health issues. Started working out again and am healthy this year. Got levels checked again a few months ago, same story, test, LH, FSH all below low end of range. Sperm count still excellent

So here is my problem...I am engaged and we will want to have kids in 3-4years max. I went to an endo and he said he would give me a small amount of Test to get my levels into at least the low normal range and it shouldn't hurt my sperm too much, or at least not irreversibly.

I went yesterday to get a 2nd opinion from a urologist who is also the Director of the Center for Male Reproductive Medicine at a large University/Hospital. He said that because my LH and FSH are not so low as to be barely undetectable (they are just below the low end of normal), he said he has found that people at those levels such as mine respond very well to Clomid and wants me to go on 50mg clomid/day and see him in 2 months to repeat my tests.

He says that because my sperm currently looks great he does not want to risk supplementing exogenous testosterone because he says that though my levels are low I am NOT fully shut down and there is no reason to risk that.

He agreed that Clomid is not a viable long term treatment but he wants to try it.

I don't undertand why I wouldn't try HCG instead at a very low dose every day or every other day.

Clomid will block some Estradiol so it will still not be a normal hormonal environment for my body while HCG at low dose ought to just turn the volume up a little on everything I think?

I am worried about osteoporosis and reduced bone mass and other problems associated with low Test (and my Test has now been low for at least 4 years) and obviously want to have better gains at the gym and feel more energetic, but is he right to be cautious with this? He said if I had already fathered children, it would be a whole different ballgame but I know he sees people all day who can't have kids and are desperately trying everything so his perspective must be skewed that way rather than being sympathetic to me living and feeling right, being in a better mood, better libido, etc>

Sorry for the long-winded post, just not sure what I should do now. I feel like I know enough to basically treat myself and I know I can find a doc that will go along with my ideas, but if I fuck soemthing up and can't habve kids it will suck for sure. If anyone didn't fall asleep reading to this point and has some input, would be much appreciated.

[mars1970]

What i can tell you is the chinese still use 500mg test inj for male contraception, looking at clinical studies done on the long term effects of this all state that azoospermia is reversable in 99.9% of all cases.

[strength]

Originally Posted by garyt1975

Figured I would ask this here as I am almost 34...

I got hormone levels tested back in 2005, test, LH, FSH were all below low end of range, had MRI etc no problems found. Never had done prohormones or AAS before. Sperm count was excellent. Knowing all this I did a small 8 week cycle followed by PCT, since I was already messed up to an extent I didn't worry about it.

Kind of let this all go, didn't work out for a few years had some other health issues. Started working out again and am healthy this year. Got levels checked again a few months ago, same story, test, LH, FSH all below low end of range. Sperm count still excellent

So here is my problem...I am engaged and we will want to have kids in 3-4years max. I went to an endo and he said he would give me a small amount of Test to get my levels into at least the low normal range and it shouldn't hurt my sperm too much, or at least not irreversibly.

I went yesterday to get a 2nd opinion from a urologist who is also the Director of the Center for Male Reproductive Medicine at a large University/Hospital. He said that because my LH and FSH are not so low as to be barely undetectable (they are just below the low end of normal), he said he has found that people at those levels such as mine respond very well to Clomid and wants me to go on 50mg clomid/day and see him in 2 months to repeat my tests.

He says that because my sperm currently looks great he does not want to risk supplementing exogenous testosterone because he says that though my levels are low I am NOT fully shut down and there is no reason to risk that.

He agreed that Clomid is not a viable long term treatment but he wants to try it.

I don't undertand why I wouldn't try HCG instead at a very low dose every day or every other day.

Clomid will block some Estradiol so it will still not be a normal hormonal environment for my body while HCG at low dose ought to just turn the volume up a little on everything I think?

I am worried about osteoporosis and reduced bone mass and other problems associated with low Test (and my Test has now been low for at least 4 years) and obviously want to have better gains at the gym and feel more energetic, but is he right to be cautious with this? He said if I had already fathered children, it would be a whole different ballgame but I know he sees people all day who can't have kids and are desperately trying everything so his perspective must be skewed that way rather than being sympathetic to me living and feeling right, being in a better mood, better libido, etc>

Sorry for the long-winded post, just not sure what I should do now. I feel like I know enough to basically treat myself and I know I can find a doc that will go along with my ideas, but if I fuck soemthing up and can't habve kids it will suck for sure. If anyone didn't fall asleep reading to this point and has some input, would be much appreciated.

Just relax.

When its time to reproduce, slam the HCG bro. Get it yourself if you have to.

look up Dr. John Crisler.

[milos1]

Originally Posted by garyt1975

Figured I would ask this here as I am almost 34...

I got hormone levels tested back in 2005, test, LH, FSH were all below low end of range, had MRI etc no problems found. Never had done prohormones or AAS before. Sperm count was excellent. Knowing all this I did a small 8 week cycle followed by PCT, since I was already messed up to an extent I didn't worry about it.

Kind of let this all go, didn't work out for a few years had some other health issues. Started working out again and am healthy this year. Got levels checked again a few months ago, same story, test, LH, FSH all below low end of range. Sperm count still excellent

So here is my problem...I am engaged and we will want to have kids in 3-4years max. I went to an endo and he said he would give me a small amount of Test to get my levels into at least the low normal range and it shouldn't hurt my sperm too much, or at least not irreversibly.

I went yesterday to get a 2nd opinion from a urologist who is also the Director of the Center for Male Reproductive Medicine at a large University/Hospital. He said that because my LH and FSH are not so low as to be barely undetectable (they are just below the low end of normal), he said he has found that people at those levels such as mine respond very well to Clomid and wants me to go on 50mg clomid/day and see him in 2 months to repeat my tests.

He says that because my sperm currently looks great he does not want to risk supplementing exogenous testosterone because he says that though my levels are low I am NOT fully shut down and there is no reason to risk that.

He agreed that Clomid is not a viable long term treatment but he wants to try it.

I don't undertand why I wouldn't try HCG instead at a very low dose every day or every other day.

Clomid will block some Estradiol so it will still not be a normal hormonal environment for my body while HCG at low dose ought to just turn the volume up a little on everything I think?

I am worried about osteoporosis and reduced bone mass and other problems associated with low Test (and my Test has now been low for at least 4 years) and obviously want to have better gains at the gym and feel more energetic, but is he right to be cautious with this? He said if I had already fathered children, it would be a whole different ballgame but I know he sees people all day who can't have kids and are desperately trying everything so his perspective must be skewed that way rather than being sympathetic to me living and feeling right, being in a better mood, better libido, etc>

Sorry for the long-winded post, just not sure what I should do now. I feel like I know enough to basically treat myself and I know I can find a doc that will go along with my ideas, but if I fuck soemthing up and can't habve kids it will suck for sure. If anyone didn't fall asleep reading to this point and has some input, would be much appreciated.

Interesting post..this is something im concerned with myself i have just started trt at 32 no kids and want them in the future..i hated having low testosterone so didn't have an option.

[garyt1975]

Originally Posted by milos1

Interesting post..this is something im concerned with myself i have just started trt at 32 no kids and want them in the future..i hated having low testosterone so didn't have an option.

i hate it too, but I have done some research and some trials show that clomid raises total testosterone about 100% in the first week in those with functioning testes but low LH levels due to secondary hypogonadism or other causes, such as too much long distance running.

I think I will give it a chance and if it works then ask him to switch me to HCG maybe 500-750IU every 3rd day with arimidex or letro on hand to keep Estrogen in check. At those dosages I think you can take HCG indefinitely and it's cheap compared to even Test.

[milos1]

Originally Posted by garyt1975

i hate it too, but I have done some research and some trials show that clomid raises total testosterone about 100% in the first week in those with functioning testes but low LH levels due to secondary hypogonadism or other causes, such as too much long distance running.

I think I will give it a chance and if it works then ask him to switch me to HCG maybe 500-750IU every 3rd day with arimidex or letro on hand to keep Estrogen in check. At those dosages I think you can take HCG indefinitely and it's cheap compared to even Test.

Give it a go i myself will never take clomid again due to it causing depression..something to be aware of if your taking long term...hope it works for you!

[trapz]

Originally Posted by mars1970

What i can tell you is the chinese still use 500mg test inj for male contraception, looking at clinical studies done on the long term effects of this all state that azoospermia is reversable in 99.9% of all cases.

well the chinese are idiots after myself and all the other guys who have gotten their gf/wives preg on way more than 500mg of test!!!