View Full Version : Yate's video
I was watching blood & guts the other day, and I got to thinking how a lot of things that are preached on this forum he doesn't follow that much. Not to say anybody's wrong here but in the video he does: machine BP, smith machine shoulder presses, leg presses, bicep machine curls, mainly as well as mainly p-downs for tris (that's all I remember) and my understanding was to do free weights whenever possible. In my belief it is the intensity/proper execution of the excercise that makes it effective. Would like every1's input on this........
mangler65
07-25-2006, 02:11 PM
There is a book you can buy to go along with the video.
He used to squat when he first started lifting, but he dropped it from his routine later. He still reccomends that beginners squat.
He doesn't do flat bench press because it builds droopy pecs. If you'll notice he does inline barbell press and incline dumbell flyes. He says they build more balanced pecs.
As you can see, he gives 100% on every rep of every set. He didn't just work out like that for the video, he always trained like that. High intensity cable pushdowns will build better tris than half-assing your way through a set of skull crushers.
biggreene
07-25-2006, 02:39 PM
where can you buy dorian's book or his dvd?
Go to his site. Ebay has them too.
He was already injured while making that vid so he had dropped certain mass moves. He doesnt do 1 set to faliure though like they preach in FLEX. In fact Dorian like Menzter never trained in HIT style. He does less sets, but far more then people think.
Dionysus
07-25-2006, 05:38 PM
I think i read somewhere that Dorian only does the workout he did exactly in the Blood and Guts video for 4 weeks at a time and then switches it up.
I could be wrong on this.
Go to his site. Ebay has them too.
He was already injured while making that vid so he had dropped certain mass moves. He doesnt do 1 set to faliure though like they preach in FLEX. In fact Dorian like Menzter never trained in HIT style. He does less sets, but far more then people think.
I don't know about Yates, but I do know that Mentzer trained HIT style during his competitive days. He may not have been using a single set to failure, his training may not even be considered abbreviated, but he was training with a high intensity and doing a lot less volume than most others. HIT theory at its roots simply states that training must be hard, brief, and infrequent enough to grow. The application varies between individuals. When dieting for a show however he was quite the over trainer esp w/ aerobic activity. Of course he is no longer alive to verify either way.
As far as I understand, and I've never met Yates in my life, he trained with a similar method but took breaks.
As far as machines vs. free weights I don't think either are more effective. Your muscle cant tell whether its curling a sack of potatoes, a barbell, or a well build hammer strength machine. Thick arms are built by lifting heavy weights hard.
Technology has benefits. The barbell was an improvement over heavy rocks and other odd shaped objects ... and the hammer strength chest press has benefits over a barbell chest press.
Machines have the ability to "focus" stress on a muscle group. Where as free weights recruit other muscles "spreading" the stress to neighbouring muscle groups. I always thought Yates was "prefatiguing" his muscles before he moved on to unstable exercises such as bentover rows, etc.
There is alot of debate on what Mike did.
According to Flex mag, greg zulak, pete gryminski(sp?) mike trained twice a day pre contest 6 days a week. Greg said he did 12-16 sets per bodypart but who really knows?
Ironman mag (they have the rights to mikes work) claim he did 1 set to failure. Flex ran a spread the other month saying that was BS and he did high volume work.
I think MIke was a great businessman and would say what he needed to to make a buck. Great bodybuilder but did he do HIT? I think not. In his later years his ideas became more abstract but at that point he no longer trained himself just others. He did have clients do 1 set once a week and claimed they gained 30lbs of muscle in months. But I have yet to see any proof or pics or anything really.
If his ideas were right I'd love to see pics of the amazing gains. I am not trying to trash his ideas but with no proof and people who knew mike saying he was a volume trainer it is hard to believe.
LondonMuscle
07-27-2006, 11:16 AM
there definitely is a lot of conjecture as to how Mike trained back in the day, but there certainly were successful champs that did train pure HIT style under arthur jones... sergio oliva and casey viator being the most famous
Dionysus
07-27-2006, 01:51 PM
I think Bill Pearl in his new book mentioned that the Mentzers used volume, and that the one set to failure was BS.
He also said that Ray was the strongest bodybuilder he has ever met.
As far as I understaned/interpertet HIT it's not supposed to be just one set but one set to absolute failure meaning going to failure then performing : drop sets, forced reps, and negatives until you can't move the weight anymore
The original HIT FAQ, as seen at least a decade ago, was considered the bible of high intensity training. It was the sole resource for high intensity training. The HIT FAQ stated the only principles behind its training was that you have to train hard enough to grow, briefly enough to remain anaerobic, and infrequently enough to fully rest and grow. Thats it. They had sample workouts that involved more work that I'd care to do during a single session. I haven't read the latest versions ... they may have changed.
Mentzer, according to our conversations, trained HIT. Now everyones definition of HIT appears to be different. Most people think of HIT as 1-3 sets to failure. What ... six sets is then volume?
I talk with Heavy Duty advocates who think that my 8-12 sets is volume training. I talk with serious volume trainers who think my 8-12 sets is low set training.
I consider myself a HITer. I train hard, briefly, and infrequently enough to grow. Now some days you'll see me working a muscle group with 12-15 sets twice a week. Other days you'll see me doing 4 ultra heavy sets for my chest period.
Food for thought.
haggar
07-28-2006, 11:52 AM
according to yates book he gave up squats in 1989 after they "caused a hip injury that nearly ended my career in 1987" it doesnt realy go into detail.
but i do think yates trained like he did in his video, why would he not ??
6x mr olympia he probably had the genetics to grow off any routine.
mentzer once said he did train with volume before he met casey viator and he was introduced to arther jones, and he began to devolep his own heavy duty training system. so i guess anyone who trained with him before this time would say he trained with volume, but then again theres so much bullshit in bodybuilding who knows?
i think aron baker and david dearth might of trained under menzter but im not sure.
david paul (one half of the barbarians twins/brothers) hired mentzer to train him he claimed he got him up to 270lbs.
in a seperate interview mentzer said he had david paul training once every 4 days, but i cant remember the exact routine, i think it was the one with the pre exhaust supersets, but again david paul probably could grow off a routine like that.
roidman0212
07-28-2006, 08:40 PM
please remember our muscles cant tell the difference between machines and free weights. that is our brain doing that. your muscles will still grow, however free weights do help you more with also working the stabilizing muscles as well where as machines work on a fixed plain. Hope this helps you out.
rman
dw954
08-04-2006, 10:31 PM
I don't know about Yates, but I do know that Mentzer trained HIT style during his competitive days. He may not have been using a single set to failure, his training may not even be considered abbreviated, but he was training with a high intensity and doing a lot less volume than most others. HIT theory at its roots simply states that training must be hard, brief, and infrequent enough to grow. The application varies between individuals. When dieting for a show however he was quite the over trainer esp w/ aerobic activity. Of course he is no longer alive to verify either way.
As far as I understand, and I've never met Yates in my life, he trained with a similar method but took breaks.
As far as machines vs. free weights I don't think either are more effective. Your muscle cant tell whether its curling a sack of potatoes, a barbell, or a well build hammer strength machine. Thick arms are built by lifting heavy weights hard.
Technology has benefits. The barbell was an improvement over heavy rocks and other odd shaped objects ... and the hammer strength chest press has benefits over a barbell chest press.
Machines have the ability to "focus" stress on a muscle group. Where as free weights recruit other muscles "spreading" the stress to neighbouring muscle groups. I always thought Yates was "prefatiguing" his muscles before he moved on to unstable exercises such as bentover rows, etc.
I know thats wat Mentzer said but I got an old weider book that some of his routines in it and it wasn't HIT like his dvd
Muscletruck
08-05-2006, 12:59 AM
Just do it, get in the gym and lift heavy weights. Pro's talk shit about their routines, they just go and lift heavy weights, there's nothing complicated about it.
I know thats wat Mentzer said but I got an old weider book that some of his routines in it and it wasn't HIT like his dvd
Mentzer didn't train according to the Heavy Duty principles when he was at his prime.
I don't consider Weider, Zulak, Flex mag, etc to be sources of reputable information.
matte220
08-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Just do it, get in the gym and lift heavy weights. Pro's talk shit about their routines, they just go and lift heavy weights, there's nothing complicated about it.
Well said! BTW...he trains pretty heavy in the VID! I've seen many pro's video's over the years and this one will make you wanna go train immediately! :)
dude dorian was mr olympia in that video you cant compare yourself to him, im sure when he started or when he was a intermediate lifter,all he used was free weights like squats and stuff..you dont build his type of size by using machines.
Bill50
08-07-2006, 10:13 PM
dude dorian was mr olympia in that video you cant compare yourself to him, im sure when he started or when he was a intermediate lifter,all he used was free weights like squats and stuff..you dont build his type of size by using machines.
I don't believe its possible either. Machines are a waste of space IMO. I train for stregnth more than size, but all you need to get big is a power rack, adjustable bench, and platform to get big. And a shitload of food.
O yeah and bar and some weights would help too. And of course dumbells.
Bill50
08-07-2006, 10:14 PM
I wonder if thsi thread will turn into another free weights versus machines thread. Shall I start another poll?
agent007
08-07-2006, 11:14 PM
Just do it, get in the gym and lift heavy weights. Pro's talk shit about their routines, they just go and lift heavy weights, there's nothing complicated about it.
This pretty much sums up my philosophy. Most bodybuilders I train with or seen do not have the best training methods or even good form. Just go through the motions with intensity. :pukeface:
Free weights are great when you want to target and use form. Free weights are essential in building good core power.
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